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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:11 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Looks to me like the Gondor part of Jobu's list is legal he has 48 models 16 with bow and 32 without. I think would be better to do it with Gondor providing the range anyhow since the rangers are the same but Arnor has better infantry.

Now as to countering the evil list I say take Gandolf as your wizard if possible for his blinding light. That way even if pitted against crossbows you'll still be able to get some shooting in.

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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:31 pm 
Craftsman
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Uruk x-bows are a threat for sure, but they are a one trick threat. They have to stand still to shoot, once everything is engaged they can not support unless your opponent also gives them pikes. I see many players just sit their shooting in one spot and not move it around, that is a huge waste of points, if you don't use the models on the table it's like they are not even there. Most x-bow users try and set up a "firing range" with the x-bows, just stay out of it or make sure you have some kind of cover to provide in the ways.
The big problem with gondor in this case is the lack of S4, even if you win fights you will need a 6 to kill vs uruk shield/berserk. While the uruk player only needs a 5, it will probably turn into a slap fight with dice luck determining who wins. Bringing Boromir with banner to up any f4 guys to f5 will help you win fights but not kill.
Once you get rid of the fell beast to neuter khamul, turn your shooting towards the uruk/orc supporters and x-bows to reduce the number of dice he has to roll in any given fight.
This sort of sounds like a rant, it's not, I am just typing my flow of thoughts, which is never pretty for me :-D .

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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:40 am 
Elven Warrior
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GreenWood wrote:
Hepp,

Here is the current EVIL list :)

Quote:
Here is my list, which is heavily Crossbow focused!

Warband 1 12/12
Lurtz
2 Uruk-hai Warrior with Shield
8 Uruk-hai Warrior with Pike
2 Uruk-hai Berserker

Warband 2 12/12
Uglúk
2 Uruk-hai Warrior with Shield
8 Uruk-hai Warrior with Pike
2 Uruk-hai Berserker

Warband 3 12/12
Vraskû
12 Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow

Warband 4 12/12
Uruk-hai Captain with Crossbow; Heavy armour
6 Uruk-hai Warrior with Pike
6 Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow

Warband 5 12/12
Uruk-hai Captain with Crossbow; Heavy armour
2 Uruk-hai Warrior with Crossbow
10 Orc Warrior with Spear

Warband 6 0/12
Khamûl the Easterling with Fell Beast;

Warband 7 0/12
The Undying with Horse

Units: 67
Points: 1200
Might: 17
Will: 37

Might swap out The Undying for another named Ringwraith, depending on what utility I need from the Special Rules. So far the idea is to have the Undying regaining his Will when Khâmul hopefully manages to cast his spells, before Khâmul himself regains his Will when Wounding..


Now he is turning towards shooting :)


Now you should Really get new Galadriel. Her permanent light would drop the crossbow chances to hit from 50% to less then 17%. That and the fact that crossbow cannot move and shoot will make almost worthless. Plus, I see no uruk shaman, so galadriel's -1 to courage will make a difference once the force is broken.
Target Khamul and get rid of his fell beast. Once he's on foot, he becames worthless (no multiple attacks, worst Nazgul magic, low will).
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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:53 pm 
Elven Warrior
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Galadriel will handily dispose of the two Nazgul too.

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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 9:45 pm 
Kinsman
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How about:

Galadriel LofL, Saurman the White (or Gandalf), Twins, Halbarad w/ Banner, Malbeth, Boragond & Damrod: 40 (D6, F4) troops, 20 archers w/ spears.

High Defense & Fight, fearless, great heroes, enough bows to down a Fell Beast or two, lots of anti-Nazgul magic (and Galadriel has no staff to break), plus superior numbers. Crossbows threat is minimized --and you will soon be on them with so much Might for Marches. Arathorn replacing Malbeth will add more Might and muscle.
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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 12:02 am 
Kinsman
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You could take:

Faramir (mtd, lance, harmor, shield), Gandalf the Grey Mtd (or new Galadrial and 55 more points), Beregond, Damrod, Malbeth, Twins (mtd, HA), 5x Ranger of the North w/ spear,
20 rangers of Arnor (10 spears)
21 Fountain court guard w/ shields (D7 is great vs his almost full str4 army)
10 Citadel Guard w/longbows (lots of D5 in his list)

1200 pts
64 models
37 bows (11 longbows, 26 normal bows)
20 might (19 after blinding light channel)

Channel blinding light to negate his shooting; Focus Khamul then the Undying's mount
after that:
Rangers: berserkers > Vrasku>Captains w/crossbows>Crossbows
Citadel guard: Vrasku > Crossbows

To get both Gandalf and Galadriel into the list, you would have to drop ~10 models and Damrod or Beregond, or replace Faramir with Denethor and drop another ~5 models.

If you don't have enough fountain court guard, running some citadel guard w/ spears (for the fight 4) and shield warriors would be fine to replace them.
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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 8:46 am 
Wayfarer
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Well, he ended up taking the Witch King and the Undying, a Isengard troll, 3 blocks of pikes with berserkers in the front row, and a few ferals with pike support, a shaman and a Banner.

I had a mishmash of men, Faramir on horse leading some Minas Thirith Knights and 4 GotFC, Halbarad with Banner, 3 RotN, Malbeth and 12 RoA W Spear, Isildur and a mounted Captain of Numenor all geared up, 17 WoN (12 spears), King of the Dead, 5 Warriors of the Dead and finally Alfred with 12 Laketown guard spears.

We played on a 6X4 board and I placed myself as far away from his troops as possible, leaving a flanking force of 12 Numenorian spears and the captain on my far right to try to lure the Troll away from my main force. It was a suicide mission, and it was successful in keeping the troll away from my main force. However, as it turned out they did not need it, so perhaps it was a too high price to pay?

Anyhow, the 2 Wraiths were successful throughout the game, not needing LOS to cast spells, helped them impair the Numenorian Captian and Faramir with drain courage and transfix, killing Malbeth with a hail of black darts. Then I had had enough of them, promptly ringed up with Isildur and went ghost hunting! No more spells, but they had done enough damage. The Witch King spending all his might on spells…

Back to the battle, while the troll was busy with a game of Numenor Bowling his army marched on towards my lines. The rangers doing their business whittling away on his front line berserkers quite successfully for e couple of turns. But as his lines closed I saw that I had numerical superiority and got a little too eager. Rather than to fall back trying to thin his lines a little more, I went on the offensive, but ended up attacking a little to piecemeal, and whitin 2-3 turnes he chewed his way through my main battleline.

Man of the Match for the human side – Halbarad!

Wraith magic and S4 was my main problems. I matched his fight value in most combats, but wounding on 5+ or 6+ is a BIG difference (just about twize as good  ) , so you need to get in a higher defence forcing Uruks to roll 6’s to wound. Enter WotD with shields. But as he used Berserkers with courage 7 in his front line he offset their advantage. And with 4 dice against 2 in most duels it went downhill quite quickly. So a tactical miss from me there.

1200 points 7 hours straight. To bad I can’t make a living out of playing SBG :)
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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 11:19 am 
Kinsman
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GreenWood wrote:
Anyhow, the 2 Wraiths were successful throughout the game, not needing LOS to cast spells..

They must see their target, but does not bother with In The Ways.
I did check to see if there was LoS, except for magic on Faramir and the Captain of Numenor who was on horseback, and therefore I assumed there was always LoS.

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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:30 pm 
Wayfarer
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My mistake then, bacause there were some impossible shots so I just assumed you did not need LOS.

The captain was hidden behind a rock and aTroll at one point when he got his courage drained, and the shot at Malbeth was through 8-10 models and a wraith on foot could not have seen him. But my mistake, I'll remember it next time ;)

Did not influence the outcome of the battle though! :)
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 Post subject: Re: Help on how to deal with EVIL using armies of men?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2015 12:36 pm 
Kinsman
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Did actually manage to see just a little part of Malbeth (remember it does not matter if it is only 1 % of him..), but you are right about the Captain behind the rock, that one was perhaps a bit speculative..

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