How long do orcs live for?

Green_Dragon · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:16 am

An interesting thought I wish to share, firstly how long can orcs live up to? Movie wise Azog fights at the moria gates and is still around roughly (120?) years later, also a thought I had movie wise the Gundabad orcs appear to be a more ancient race than the ones we see in lotr, could their huge size be a product of that? Or merely just a different breed of orc?

Lord Maedhros · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:56 am

As far as I am aware Tolkien did not specify exactly how long Orcs can live, however I personally think that because they were originally made from elves I think they would at least live over a couple hundred years as long as they were not killed... but that is just my opinion based upon what I have read on the matter.

LordElrond · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:58 am

Aren't they just tortured and mutated elves? So surely they would just live until they were killed?

Alatar of Rhun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:30 am

I would have thought that they would have lost there immortality once they were corrupted by Morgoth

Found this on another site, in the 10th volume of The History of Middle-earth it says that Orcs had short lifespans in relation to the Númenóreans, which would mean that they weren't immortal.

But at least Orcs could live a long life. The proof for that is Bolg, who died 140 years later than his father, Azog.

Of course it may vary among different breeds of Orcs. Isengard Uruk-hai for example have a very short life span.

Monday Birth
Tuesday Battle of Helms Deep
Wednesday Huron forest walk
Thursday Burial

''For Morgoth had many servants, the oldest and most potent of whom were immortal, belonging indeed in their beginning to the Maiar; and these evil spirits like their Master could take on visible forms. Those whose business it was to direct the Orcs often took Orkish shapes, though they were greater and more terrible. Thus it was that the histories speak of Great Orcs or Orc-captains who were not slain, and who reappeared in battle through years far longer than the span of the lives of Men''

Coenus Scaldingus · **Joined:** Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:14 am **Posts:** 1121

The conversation between Shagrat and Gorbag (end of TTT) is pretty interesting in that respect. They speak of 'old times' when (IIRC) they were mostly free and far removed from the Nazgûl, whom they fear. They also seem to have some knowledge of Elves, which they wouldn't have encountered in rather a long time near Mordor...

Alatar of Rhun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:02 pm

Your right I had forgotten about that. I guess I'll have to read Lord of the Rings again as punishment :-X

But also Cirith Ungol was an outpost of Minas Tirith that was abandoned some time before Minas Ithil fell to the Nazul, there is nothing to say both Shagrat and Gorbag didn't come from Dol Guldur, Misty Mountains or else were neary elves

Isilduhrr · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:00 pm

On a somewhat related not, how do orcs breed? I assume they don't just all crawl from pits of slime in Isengard, and there's never any obviously female orcs....

Laevos · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:16 pm

There does not seem to be a given limit to the lifespan of orcs. As the others pointed out, there are references in the different books that they are not immortal. However, I do not expect old age to be a major factor in orc mortality.
As for the different kinds of orc, I remember a section of the Hobbit book where it spoke of the bodyguard of Bolg. They were referred to as Great Orcs or Uruks. So orcs seem to be mostly classified by size. Small = goblin, medium = orc, large = uruk.

Ares B · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:26 pm

Isilduhrr wrote:

On a somewhat related not, how do orcs breed? I assume they don't just all crawl from pits of slime in Isengard, and there's never any obviously female orcs....

Tolkien wrote in a letter: "There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known."

Harfoot · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:28 pm

about 20 minutes on my gaming table :lol:

Pindergorn · **Posted:** Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:30 pm

Hell, my Orcs are lucky to even be born in the first place. 75% of them are still in my backlog, not painted or even assembled yet. Unborn so to speak.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:31 am

Laevos wrote:

There does not seem to be a given limit to the lifespan of orcs. As the others pointed out, there are references in the different books that they are not immortal. However, I do not expect old age to be a major factor in orc mortality.
As for the different kinds of orc, I remember a section of the Hobbit book where it spoke of the bodyguard of Bolg. They were referred to as Great Orcs or Uruks. So orcs seem to be mostly classified by size. Small = goblin, medium = orc, large = uruk.

That's in the movies. In the books goblins and orcs were the same, hobbits called them goblins, most everyone else called them orcs. Uruk was elvish for orc, so it's the same word really. Uruk-hai were the different breed. They were bigger, stronger and could tolerate the sun.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:42 am

Ares B wrote:

Isilduhrr wrote:

On a somewhat related not, how do orcs breed? I assume they don't just all crawl from pits of slime in Isengard, and there's never any obviously female orcs....

Tolkien wrote in a letter: "There must have been orc-women. But in stories that seldom if ever see the Orcs except as soldiers of armies in the service of the evil lords we naturally would not learn much about their lives. Not much was known."

It is true that Tolkien hinted that there were orc-women, but he was also planning on completely rewriting the Silmarillion towards the end of life, taking out things like the earth being flat in favor of "scientific" stuff, and I feel like that's why he would have included orc-women.

As for the movies, I have a theory: Orcs come from spawning pits, but only in the presence of a Maiar or similar being, after which the orc takes some characteristics. Tolkien said that Morgoth had put so much of his power into Middle-Earth that it was basically his Ring. A being of enough power might have been able to utilize the corrupted earth itself to make orcs. This would explain the differences in orcs. Sauron is mass producing orcs (possibly with help from the Nazgul), which is why they are pretty low quality, but he's also specially producing uruk-hai, which is why they are much higher quality. Saruman did pretty much the same, with the exception that he perfected the art of making Uruk-Hai, which is why his army consisted almost exclusively of them. Goblins in Moria were made by the Balrog, but since he wasn't all that interested in leading them, they were much smaller and weaker creatures than Sauron's orcs. The Great Goblin, Azog and maybe Bolg were Boldog (Tolkien's term for the orc Maiar you meantioned) which is why the Gundabad orcs looked like Azog, the Goblin-Town goblins looked like the Great Goblin. The orcs from Angmar would be made by the Witch-King. Trolls are all but confirmed to be made from actual stone, so I don't think it would be much of a jump to make orcs from earth.

Dorthonion · **Posted:** Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:53 am

I have this mental image of an ancient orc waving a stick at an uruk - 'Call yourself an orc sonny? In my day we had to put up with Numenoreans and High Elves. And there you go getting beat up by some dwarves, beardy men and a few trees... disgraceful!'

Morgoths_crown · **Joined:** Thu May 27, 2010 10:53 pm **Posts:** 161

I always thought of orcs as Legion or a corrupted, half life. Ultimatley they are the pantomime villains of Middle-earth.

Dead Marsh Spectre · **Posted:** Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:26 pm

How long do orcs live for?

Depends who they are fighting lol

How long do orcs live for?

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