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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Let's just wait for the third movie before rushing to conclusions: if the main guy in this trilogy is redesigned in the last minutes to lose a pair of legs, and the other big evil fella has been changed several times over, who can say what will happen to those Dwarves? They can arrive on boars for whatever reason, but may also just come marching in all that distance on foot (which definitely makes them more tough in my book), arrive on frog-drawn sleds or on the backs of giant flatworms...
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:24 pm 
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Creaky wrote:
Definitely different - but in a similar style, though. Which bodes well for inclusion of them all within the same force.

My fear was that they would have a totally unique visual aesthetic which would render it difficult to make them fit in. Now it seems as though the Iron Hills and Erebor Dwarves will fit in nicely alongside each other (the open face helms being the most noticeable difference, I think), hopefully there'll be something new alongside the strongly rumored Boar Cavalry - some sort of ranged weapon (crossbows?) It'd leave the Dwarves as a fairly well rounded army list (something the Hobbit is lacking in right now).

Because the Dwarf armies are so weak atm and need crossbows and cavalry :/ They are all ready one of the most powerfull and "well rounded" forces in lotr, don't really want them becoming the space marines of it.
The link isn't working for me :/
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:33 pm 
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Dwarves don't need any help, as stated. Khazads are the most powerful, point for point, unit in the game and basic dwarves are basically immune to ranged attacks. However, I will say dwarf cavalry would be cool.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:36 pm 
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Zarathustra Suicuine wrote:
Because the Dwarf armies are so weak atm and need crossbows and cavalry :/ They are all ready one of the most powerfull and "well rounded" forces in lotr, don't really want them becoming the space marines of it.


I was mainly referring to Hobbit Dwarves. And I don't care two hoots about help, it's variety in the same/similar visual style I'm after.

Of course, if we consider LotR then the Dwarves are absolutely fine as is. But I'd like more variety in the Erebor Dwarves (or simply Dwarves in a similar, if not identical visual aesthetic). Something to give pure hobbit dwarf armies some variation, without delving into the entirely GW created Dwarves would be lovely, for me at least. Not saying I dislike the GW style Dwarves, but I don't think the two aesthetics are close enough to mix in the same force, and have it pass off as 'the same force' as opposed to 'two separate forces fighting together'.
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:58 pm 
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True I guess, but I thought the Iron hill dwarves are culturally distinct from Erebor, like Rivendell and the Galhadrim?
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:34 am 
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Technically yes, but the aesthetic in the video seems 'close enough' that with a similar paint job they'd do a great job of fitting in. All hard angles: like a small, furry tank. Not a conical helmet in sight.

My worry was that PJ would seek to differentiate the Iron Hills far more than he appears to have done. So long as I can ally them together and have them not look totally different in every single respect then I'll be satisfied.
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 3:09 am 
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black1blade wrote:
I just don't like the idea of boar cavalry.


Totally agree, I don't have a problem with Wargs but Boar riders sound stupid. A good reason may be so many other fantasy things have them and have done them poorly, LOTR Is the only fantasy thing I like at all so as I equate them with OTHER fantasy things that's probably why I hate the idea

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:36 am 
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I would like that the Iron Hill dwarves have different qualities than the Erebor dwarves, just like the Galadrim/Rivendell differences in armour.
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:32 am 
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Balin, son of Fundin wrote:

Let's not jump to conclusions, to me it looks like he is running on the treadmill we see him fall off a few seconds later, not riding on a mount.


I think it is a running dwarf too and agree with the above poster.

With regards fitting in all styles of Dwarf warrior, I have to agree with a previous poster that the GW design ethic just does not fit in for me either. They are nice figures in themselves but do not fit in with the rest of the PJ vision. I am looking forward to completing my dwarf army soon as I have many figures to arrange into a cohesive army, but there are gaps in my collection - mainly a standard heavy infantry type.
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 10:23 am 
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Billy Connolly (Dain) himself confirmed he would be riding a boar. Whether we will see the other Iron Hills dwarves mounted is unclear, though I think it would be cool too see a new variety of mounts in SBG.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 12:07 pm 
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I thought only Dain would ride on a big-badass boar.
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 2:28 pm 
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Somehow the thunder of cavalry charging does not sit well in contrast to the squealing of piggies into battle.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:19 pm 
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Dorthonion wrote:
Somehow the thunder of cavalry charging does not sit well in contrast to the squealing of piggies into battle.

... Says the one who put the height of nonsense as his location...
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:28 pm 
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Dorthonion wrote:
Somehow the thunder of cavalry charging does not sit well in contrast to the squealing of piggies into battle.


You could say the same about 12 guys firing arrows from the back of a trumpeting Nellie the Elephant but it worked alright for the Mumak. It's all about the execution.

Bear in mind that, as far as I know, the only confirmation of any boar riders has been from the one Billy Connoly quote about 18 months ago where he said "I arrive riding a wild pig". Assuming that's still the case (these movies have been known to change just a teensy bit) then that could mean that he turns up riding a pig and we never see them again. Of course it could mean that every dwarf in the BOFA armies rides a boar, or it could mean anything in between.

Personally I'm withholding judgment until I see it in the film, dwarves riding boars might look good, it might look awful, we won't know until we see the result.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:34 pm 
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Mumakil are merely Tolkien's fantastic interpretation of war elephants which were employed by real armies for a very long time, approximately 2250 years in fact. The troops used spears, javelins, various types of bows, and the elephants themselves were capable of using their tusks and sheer size to crush and devastate enemies. In some instances their mere appearance on a battlefield spooked their opponents into panic.
So yes, Nellie did pack her trunk and go to war, quite a lot. Possibly the most famous instance was when Hannibal took a bunch of them into Italy via the Alps.
My research has yet to find any actual documented use of boars or other feral porcines as cavalry in combat.
And in case anyone gets confused, when someone refers to the current use of Hogs, it is a slang term for the A10 Thunderbolt, nicknamed the Warthog or Hog for short. Now that is one piggie you really do not want to get on the wrong side of.
PJ may have a giant hog for Dain to charge around on. Let's hope it is not animated by the same ejit who did Legolas on the horse leaving Laketown. That was so bad...

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:56 pm 
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The reason there aren't any records of real life boar riders is that boars are incredibly foul tempered and very large. It's not possible for for them to be domesticated, whereas elephants are pretty calm animals. And all (or at least many of them) of Hannibal's elephants died from forced marches through snow before actually getting to battle. However, dwarves are pretty dag-gone stubborn and might have been able to do what humans could not and make them rideable. Considering dwarves can do other stuff humans can't, boar riders aren't that far fetched.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 2:21 am 
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Quote:
Bear in mind that, as far as I know, the only confirmation of any boar riders has been from the one Billy Connoly quote about 18 months ago where he said "I arrive riding a wild pig".


There's also a Hobbit video game whose art work shows dwarves riding boars. http://thorinoakenshield.net/tag/boar-riders/
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:53 am 
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It is very strange that when people mention Boar Cavalry I am ready for it, I have seen Dwarf Cav done in model form on bears, but a large wild boar makes more sense and fits with how dwarves behave, rugged, mean, in your face, and nasty like a boar. I know it is not in the books, but it will not even phase me at all (a lot better than a leaping elf prince).
But on the other hand, as soon as people mention Beornings I cringe because it is not until long after the BOTFA that we know Beorn settles and find or makes kin. Why would Beorn sit alone on the carrock staring at the Misty Mountains in sadness/grief or anger as the books describe, if He had his Kin and was living well he would not care at all about his old home, they would be thriving in a new one. So Beorn alone is how it should be, very mad at the Orcs of Gundabad and ready to take revenge.

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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2014 11:49 pm 
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Nobody can pretend to speak for Tolkien, but boar cavalry doesnt seem so far-fetched to me, could e fun!
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 Post subject: Re: First sight of Iron Hills Dwarves?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:34 am 
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"Oh yes! I have to go back for that. I haven't done [the battle scenes] yet. I have to get battle-ready! I ride into war on a wild pig!.

I've never read The Hobbit. Never. Never read Lord of the Rings. I could never read Tolkien. I always found him unreadable … I didn't read [the books], and I normally don't like people who have! The people who love it, they're kind of scary. They talk all this gobbledygook and they think of it as the Holy Grail."

From the mouth of Mr Connelly himself, playing Dain Ironfoot too, of course.

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