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 Post subject: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Any thoughts or critiques?

Common Formations (6 w/ 13 comp):
Uruk-hai phalanx (3 comp) w/ Saruman, Banner, Banner of the White Hand Fate, and Drummer (470 pts)
Uruk-hai warband (3 comp) w/ Captain and Banner (190 pts)
Uruk hai warband (2 comp) 70 pts
Isengard Orcs w/ 2HW (3 comp) 45 pts
Uruk-hai warband with crossbows and Kardush the Firecaller (135pts)
Uruk-hai Scouts w/ bows and Lurtz (210 pts)

Rare Formations (6 w/ 11 comp):
Berserker (110 pts)
Berserker (110 pts)
Isengard Ballistae (2 comp) 150 pts
Morgul knights (3 comp) w/ Captian, Banner, Musician (205 pts)
Dunlending Huscarls (3 comp) w/ Thrydan Wolfsbane (125 pts)
Isengard Battering Ram 50 pts

Legendary Formations:
Mauhur's Marauders (2 comp) 130 pts
----------------------------------------------------
Total 2000pts


Last edited by OurFoesShallFall on Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:21 pm 
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This seems to be for SBG, not WOTR.

If it is for War of the Ring, please sort into formations and common/rare/legend/epic. Oh, and give the total cost. That should make it a lot more comprehensive what goes with what.

From first glance I can only say you seem to have very small formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 4:03 pm 
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So hopefully I edited it the right way this time lol
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Don't write an Epic as part of a formation since they move around, write in an Epic Heroes section, above the Common Fornations section.

Secondly, as Telchar says, your formations are way too small. Drop the Fate and all of the Captains, Banners and Drummers. Orcs with 2-handers should be in 6+ company formations, mauhur Marauders should neve be lower than 3, the crossbows in 3-4, never take a single company formation unless they cannot be taken otherwise (eg Beserkers), Uruk-hai w. shield should be in formations of 4 companioes and be your core. Drop the scout archers they cost too much, Dunledings w/ shields or 2-handers should be in 5s. You army is too small for that, most armies will be 30+ coys.

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:19 pm 
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OurFoesShallFall wrote:
Any thoughts or critiques?

Common Formations (6 w/ 13 comp):
Uruk-hai phalanx (3 comp) w/ Saruman, Banner, Banner of the White Hand Fate, and Drummer (470 pts)
Uruk-hai warband (3 comp) w/ Captain and Banner (190 pts)
Uruk hai warband (2 comp) 70 pts
Isengard Orcs w/ 2HW (3 comp) 45 pts
Uruk-hai warband with crossbows and Kardush the Firecaller (135pts)
Uruk-hai Scouts w/ bows and Lurtz (210 pts)

Rare Formations (6 w/ 11 comp):
Berserker (110 pts)
Berserker (110 pts)
Isengard Ballistae (2 comp) 150 pts
Morgul knights (3 comp) w/ Captian, Banner, Musician (205 pts)
Dunlending Huscarls (3 comp) w/ Thrydan Wolfsbane (125 pts)
Isengard Battering Ram 50 pts

Legendary Formations:
Mauhur's Marauders (2 comp) 130 pts
----------------------------------------------------
Total 2000pts


Drop the Phalanx, use those point to double your Warriors with shields, dump all the banners and the captains, use those points to add another 4 coys to the second Uruk Warband, and 3 coys on the Orcs. Lose the battering ram, use those points along with the leftovers from your captains and banners to add 2 coys to the crossbowmen and 1 to Mauhur's Marauders. Or, even better, drop Mauhur and get yourself lot of Uruks with crossbows. Change the Scouts with bows for a fourth company of Crossbowmen. That would land you with something like:

Epic:
Saruman - 240
Lurtz - 175
Kardush - 100
Thrydan - 50

Common:
Uruk-Hai Warband - 6 coys, shields - 210
Uruk-Hai Warband - 6 coys, shields - 210
Isengard Orcs - 7 coys, 2HW - 120
Uruk-Hai Warband - 4 coys, crossbows - 140
Uruk-Hai Warband - 4 coys, crossbows - 140

Rare
Berserkers - 110
Berserkers - 110
Morgul Knights - 3 coys - 105
Dunlending Huscarls - 3 coys, shields - 75

For tactics, look at this thread: http://one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22651

Some people like the Uruks with shields in squads of 4, which simply means you bind the 2 coys you shave off each formation into a third. This would allow you to take back Mauhur's Marauders by dumping the second crossbow formation.

Oh, yes. I noticed you calculated the Legendaries cost with the first company included in the base cost. Internet concensus (and common sense, because things like the Grey Company would get ridiculously good) is that this not so, and that you pay the base cost to be able to take the formation (essentially, you pay this for the command and rules you get) and then add companies at the listed cost. Thus 2 coys of Mauhur's Marauders would be 160 points, not 130.

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:16 am 
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ಠ_ಠ That looks a bit boring to play... And from the strategy page it looks like all my uruks and orcs would do is act as a shield to my rare units.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:16 am 
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OurFoesShallFall wrote:
ಠ_ಠ That looks a bit boring to play... And from the strategy page it looks like all my uruks and orcs would do is act as a shield to my rare units.

The advice given above in the thread is generally sound, but of course WotR is about more than a killer list that makes the most of the rules. It also is about making the most of what you do have and think are just 'cool' to play. I can make an Isengard list that would be a PITA for any foe to beat any day of the week, but I like to try new things and new tactics and models that rarely get an outing too.

I think you also need to say what you would like to do or get out of the list, so it can be tweaked to your desired play style.

But on general advice about your list:
- Yes smaller formations of 3 tend to get overwhelmed, and are better in 4s or 5s (or more), if you have any 'disposable' single company infantry formations they never need a captain or epic hero... 4 hits and its goodnight formation and that pricey hero
- Captains, well dropping all of them as suggested is a tad extreme as the manouevrability from At the Double, the 2 might points for Heroic actions /Will of Iron, is useful, but again in larger formations.
-banners are harder to justify, for the cost/benefit, but have their place too, but you often won't be taking very many.
- Consider using Druzhag instead of Kardush, his summoning ability can be a headache, and he is a decent Ruin Caster as well as having Spells of Wilderness, which can be useful for digging bunkered enemy units in defensive terrain
- Ballistae - are fun, taking two together is a good idea as they will of course miss about 1/3 of the time. Not an ideal army choice of course, if you are just considering bang per buck for your points, and deployment of these can make or break their usefulness, but they do tend to 'focus' oipponents attention beyond their actual destructive capability and make him more likely overextend to try and destroy them :)
- Phalanx - look cool but aren't so effective in WotR, if you have the models and want to use them go ahead, but use them on the flanks more as support or to stymie enemy cavalry movement, (and you never need a banner with a phalanx)

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:07 pm 
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OurFoesShallFall wrote:
ಠ_ಠ That looks a bit boring to play... And from the strategy page it looks like all my uruks and orcs would do is act as a shield to my rare units.


In that case, what units would you like to use?

The Uruks would also be the big scary-looking thing to the front that stops your enemy from wheeling round to face the angry berserkers on his flank 8) .

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2012 10:01 pm 
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I like using fast units or shock troops. Get in, get out. I want to finish fights quickly but have some flavor to them other than "I use these guys cause they have shields." I definitely like Druzhag better than Kardush so I'm switching him out. Also, I don't like shooting rules with WotR because I can never hit with them, even crossbows without penalty. I killed an elf army in a 1000 pt match and he had +30 dice per round to shoot and killed only 3 or 4 guys per round.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:43 pm 
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OurFoesShallFall wrote:
I like using fast units or shock troops. Get in, get out. I want to finish fights quickly but have some flavor to them other than "I use these guys cause they have shields." I definitely like Druzhag better than Kardush so I'm switching him out. Also, I don't like shooting rules with WotR because I can never hit with them, even crossbows without penalty. I killed an elf army in a 1000 pt match and he had +30 dice per round to shoot and killed only 3 or 4 guys per round.


But that's Elves, they don't count. That would have been about half his army :-D .

If you like fast shock troops, something like this might be in order:

Saruman 240
Lurtz 175
Thrydan 50
Druzhag 110 (watch out, people will complain about him)

Uruk-Hai Warband - 6 coy, shields - 210
Uruk-Hai Scout Warband - 4 coy, shields - 140 (possibly swapped for Phalanx)
Uruk-Hai Scout Warband - 4 coy, shields, captain - 190
Isengard Orc Warband - 6 coy, 2HW, captain - 170
Uruk-Hai Warband - 3 coy, crossbows, captain - 155

Uruk-Hai Berserkers - 110
Feral Uruk-Hai Warband (convert them out of Uruks with Pikes or Scouts)- 4 coy - 140
Morgul Knight Regiment - 3 coy - 105
Isengard Troll Captain - 150

Mauhur's Marauders - 3 coy - 190

Put Saruman in the big uruk block (I hope you don't object to having a few of them?), Lurtz in the captainless scouts and Thrydan with the Berserkers. Then sprint the whole thing forward with ATD, and ambush the Ferals behind your enemy. Call Heroic Fights with your combat formations, and Heroic Shoot with the Crossbow Uruks (believe me, you will hit a lot of things with them. Against Haradrim I nearly killed a formation a turn with them). And KEEP SARUMAN AWAY FROM DUELERS. On how to do this, check ,my own Isengard army thread (on page 2 now, I think). That should be workable enough, and has plenty of fast formations. Problem is enemy numbers.

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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 6:12 pm 
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Druzhag is 100 pts, not 110. I do like this army though.
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 Post subject: Re: Isengard Army
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:29 am 
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OurFoesShallFall wrote:
Druzhag is 100 pts, not 110. I do like this army though.


Oh, sorry. Then add a hornblower somewhere.

Be warned, this will require a lot of clever playing and calling of heroic actions to undo the enemy's almost guaranteed numerical superiority. If you want tip's on that, turn to Xelee or Blackmist, they seem to play a lot.

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