How much of this game is based on luck? I've recently been playing with a few friends, mainly fighting my Gondor force versus an equal (in points value) Isengard force, and I lose every time -- and it seems my friend is an exceptionally good dice roller, even when I'm fighting 3v1.

Love the game and collecting minis etc but just how much of SBG is based purely on luck...?

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Current Projects: Minas Tirith force; 36 WoMT, Officer, Standardbearer, Boromir, and 6 KoMT

In my opinion, no it's not just luck. Luck can very much help but more important is tactics! Gondor is a great army and I have a very small force of them myself, I use them often to destroy my younger sisters army. She is not that good with tactics but once when I was winning I saw a critical turn for her. I suggested her moves for just that turn and she won. Tactics can win everything. I'm not experienced enough to express all my tactics because usually I just know what to do in certain situations. Just remember use your archers for shooting and charge models that you don't want to charge yours. For example your Hero is Boromir and he only has 1 wound left. There is a large Isengard Troll just 8cm from Boromir but you may not be confident that Boromir can handle quite a fight. In this case charge the Troll with as many models as possible. You a) keep Boromir out of the fight and b) your warriors may give the Troll something to reckon with!

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Backlog Reduction Oath

My WIP: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21545&start=40

Majority of new people consider the game very luck based. But given that top 20 Grand Tournament finishers every year include about 12 players who never get below top 20. Also, if the game was ever much luck based, there wouldn't be one guy win 5 GTs in a row between 2004 and 2008, as well as I wouldn't finish at 5 GT podiums in a row (winning 2) between 2009 and 2011 (as well as another guy winning 2 out of 4 podiums in 2009-2011)

Isengard is a tough army to beat if you've got just Warriors of MT and he's using just Uruk Hai - then you have the worst possible unit to ever use against his army. You should therefore invest in Guards of the Fountain Court with shields. Also, with heroes like Boromir - don't ever waste them charging trolls, charge multiple warriors and call heroic combats as often as possible. Do not charge trolls with as many men as you can - that is the complete opposite to what you should be doing - charge them with 1 model, so that they are stuck while the rest of the models helps beating the normal warriors (if you break your enemy, Trolls are likely to flee).

There is less luck and more skill involved in this game than you can imagine. I would rate it at 95% skill and 5% luck.

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Coordinator of the Great British Hobbit League

Aha listen to him about the Troll! BlackMist I will be trying that tactic as soon as possible.

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Backlog Reduction Oath

My WIP: viewtopic.php?f=50&t=21545&start=40

"In my experience, there's no such thing as luck," Obi-Wan Kenobi.

I think everyone here will agree that it's how you play far more than how your dice turn out. Obviously a bad roll or set of rolls can really cause a bad time but it usually won't mean win/loose in most cases.

I've had some serious "bad luck" at some times myself. I have had two SBG games where near the end of the game Legolas blew a Courage Test so bad it couldn't be managed w/ Might and fled the field leaving his warriors to fend for themselves. That's not something you would expect since top Good Heroes, especially Elves, are almost safe (statistically) from Courage issues...but there are the times you'll roll 1s. In WotR my Mumuks (tried in three games so far) seem to only rolls 3s or less on their move / charge distances under my control but nail 5s and 6s on every die when they stampeed...and the random direction die has always sent them back into my own troops in each case. These situations burn themselves into your mind and skew your perception.

But I've also had some wonderful "luck". I take the Blessings of Galadrial Fortune a lot and often roll a 6 for the number of extra Might to start with. I seem to have better than average success with my Evil focus rolls (but find my Good spell users bombing them all the time). I have gotten great success with Earth Shaking Charge results ( need a 6 ) with my Cav forces where it really shouldn't come up that much.

All this is really random and if you tracked the numbers over the course of games you'd see there's probably nothing that comes out side the typical d6 bell curve. But in game perception really matters. If you are emotionally invested in a specific turn or phase you are paying more attention to it and we tend to remember things that go against us more than things that work to our favor.

Play to your best, learn the strengths and weaknesses of your army and your enemy's and play to those. If you put too much of your success plan on a limited strategy, only one Formation or Hero, etc., then you are going to be more impacted by a few bad rolls on your part of exceptional "luck" on your opponent's part. You should try to minimize such reliances or at least have plans ready in place for if they go bad. A game is very fluid and you need to be ready to adapt to significant changes not just turn to turn but phase to phase and even combat to combat. If you allow a bad set of rolls to create a fatalistic impression that you are going to loose the game because of those rolls then you're probably going to make it happen.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

That's all totally fair... last night I was a bit [word deleted] since I had lost the 3rd game in a row against the same guy, using the same forces.

I'm beginning to think that the Warriors of Minas Tirith are probably not a match for Uruk-hai (at least straight up); when we play a similar force of Easterlings versus my WoMT, the results are much different (I actually won one of those games...). We are also just starting out, and so we have slowly been incorporating more and more of the rules into our games. At first they were fairly simple a la the first few pages of the rulebook, but recently we've started trying siege games and using advanced rules like defending barricades and using trees for cover, as well as using weapons and wargear addons for units.

One of the other problems is that I am a very "vanilla" collector; no cave trolls, balrogs, wizards, or anything silly - just warriors, a few cavalry, and some of the more important heroes. Before I played the game I was one of the "oh that looks cool" people who buys everything under the sun if I like the way it looks.

Thanks guys!

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Current Projects: Minas Tirith force; 36 WoMT, Officer, Standardbearer, Boromir, and 6 KoMT

The main difference is S4 (there's also the F4 factor). You are paying an extra point for a WoMT over a WoR for the same effectiveness against Uruks, since Uruks wound both D5 and D6 on a 5. Over the army this adds up...if you have 35 warriors in 500 points that's effectively 35 points wasted. Easterlings will wound your WoMT *half* as often as Uruks, not to mention winning fewer fights, which is why the contrast is so huge.

Uruks require different tactics. They are the "elves" of evil, so you either have to outfight them (Galadhrim...no point in high elves because heavy armour is useless), outclass them (Fountain Court, same Fight, D7) or take a page from goblins and try to swarm them (difficult if he fields orcs). If your opponent doesn't field scouts or orcs, you should be able to out shoot him. You might consider allying in some Grey Company, or fielding a Rangers of Ithilien army that is 1/3rd Rangers (so they can all shoot).

That sounds great! I had no idea the Uruks were the "Elves" of Evil, but after having played it makes perfect sense. So I assume that charging in with normal Men warriors is a bad idea... which explains a lot. Also very interesting to hear how much my chances go up when facing Easterlings as opposed to Uruks. I will have to pick up some Grey Company or Duinhir when I get a chance.

Thanks!

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Current Projects: Minas Tirith force; 36 WoMT, Officer, Standardbearer, Boromir, and 6 KoMT