Here goes:


Last night, against a Rohan (w/ Treebeard) army, I unveiled this build that have I've been working on for the last couple of months. It either greatly overachieved or my opponent greatly underachieved.

Rumil 70
Haldir (w/ bow and Armour) 80
Stormcaller 60
1 Galadhrim Warrior w/ Banner 42

6 Gaurds of Caras Galadhon 72
10 Galadhrim Warriors (w/ Elven Blade and Sheild) 100
7 Galadhrim Warriors (w/ Elf bow) 70
8 Wood elf Warriors (w/ spear & TW) 80
8 Wood elf Warriors (w/ Elf Blade & TW) 80
8 Wood elf Warriors (w/ Elf Bow) 72


726 pts 51 Warriors, 16 bows.

I put my Stormcaller behind the 6 Gaurds which were behind 8 WE spears, which were behind 10 Galadhrim Elven Blades and Rumil. When We engaged in close combat I used all 3 Will on the Stormcaller to cast Nature's Wrath and I rolled a 6! He lost 5 horses and suffered many casualties who were hacked to death while they lay on their back. That Storm caller made it more than worth taking him because he still had 3 Will left for the rest of the game; I kept him casting Call winds on Treebeard.

I was very satisfied. Any suggestions for making an Ok build a great build?

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

well i think that your army is great. all you need to work on now is tactics for it, work out a couple of really good tactics (you already know the classic move with the stormcaller) and practice untill you have perfected it.

note that the same tactic will not always work against all armies (although the stormcaller one is super good, unless there is a hero close enough to resist it..... then your plan could go haywire)

so some things to know:
don't ever use all 3 dice for natures wrath as you have a 50% chance to get a 6, and if you dont get a 6 then..... ya (my opponent once tried this, he got a 5, but i had a hero and resisted it.... he just wasted 60pts and his ace card.....). best to use 2 dice

also, use the wood elve's throwing weapons as much as possible (run forward, throw, next turn run back, throw..... (super good if you can run to woods ))

you seem to know what to do with the galadrim


the only thing that you could really use is gandalf, most importantly for blinding light (to shield the soft wood elves), and of course for his array of spells (with him you can use str will on the stormcaller!!!! with him you can use this tactic: cast NW with all 3 dice, str will on the stormcaller. next turn. str will aagin, then cast NW again!). so with gandalf and the stormcaller you will have lots of magic to throw around with should shield you from all the really nasty stuff (can even neutralise mass trolls)
oh! and gandalf's str will save the stormcaller from sap will

so ya... do a bit of research and find some really good tactics and then perfect them

I would take out the normal haldir and get the new one then just add an extra wood elf with bow to make the points back to normal. This way you get 1 more numbers and a special rule lol...

Also your 26 points over????? isnt this a 700pt list? im suprised your opponent aloud you to get 26 points over. Or is this a 750pt list? if its 750 pt just get a senitel

My opponent did have 750 pts. I typo-ed in the subject line.
There was a reason that I didn't use the "defender of Helm's Deep" profile for Haldir. I think that it is because I used all my Warrior models and wanted to have the Expert Shot with Haldir. (before you say "you only had 7 Galadhrim archers!" let me point out that I had 10 Elven Blades because I converted some from archers and some from Spearmen. (The last of the 24 in the box became a banner.)

And you can't just throw a Sentinel in with this list because Sentinels are not on the Lothlorien Army list. They are only on the Thranduil's halls list... so, apart from creating bow limit problems (because one WE warrior would have to be designated to the other list), you would need to add a Thranduil's Halls Hero, (Captain, Thranduil, Legolas). Then the points would be well over 750. I could, however add a Galadhrim Knight just for the heck of it but 1 Knight would never do very well.

The other thing is that the club that I ususally play @ has a house rule that all banners are 20 pts cheaper and have +3" to their range. So I can take this build to the club and it would only be 706 pts.

@ Shadowswarm:

Thanks for the props.

I have had a problem getting throwing weapons to work in a kiting move. Since the range is 6" and most move 6", if you throw your weapons and then lose priority you have pretty much lost the advantage. I usually like to just charge in with my Blade Warriors and each on throws their weapon as they charge. If they score a wound they move onto a new target in the same charge.

And I think that you mean you have a 50% chance of rolling a 4+, not a 6. You always have 1/6 chance of rolling a 6, no matter how many dice you roll....

And I mentioned that Nature's Wrath/Strengthen Will tactic in another thread and got shot down by somebody; I can't remember who, (Edit: it Mouth of Sauron near the bottom of this page.) but their argument was that the points cost was too high... but look was you get! 1/6 chance to not expend ANY will points 5 times in 2 turns!

Btw, Galadriel, the Protectress of Lothlorien, also has Cast Blinding Light and she is 50 pts cheaper than Gandalf, and a better fighter. But I was going for cheaper heros and higher numbers with this army....

I think we understand each other tho'. There are a buncha different things you can do with Lothlorien, all of them devastating. I think this list achieves an element of superiority in numbers and effectiveness.

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

You're not quite right about the odds of rolling a 6. Rolling a six with 1 die is 1/6, but with 2 dice it's 11/36.

The general formula for rolling at least one 6 in n rolls is 1 - (5/6)^n. Here's a link: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/56502.html

Why do I listen to these guys!!!!

Everything that was said in that thread was totally wrong about stormcallers!!!!!!

I knew that there was a probability equation that supported my suspicion. Why didn't I stick to my guns?

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

He's not *exactly* wrong though. You're still rolling 3 dice, it doesn't matter that it's one at a time. Whether you roll 3 dice all at once or once each turn, your chances of getting a 6 are 91/216.

What matters though is how it affects the game in other ways. If you roll them one each turn, your chances of getting a 6 are 1/6 for each turn, which means the odds of your spell coming off at all are less, and the odds of it being resisted are greater, than if you threw all 3 dice in one turn.

Then there's the issue of getting all 3 Will back, vs the possibility of getting one Will back at a time. If you throw them all at once, there is a 91/216 chance you'll get them all back, in which case you can make another throw with the same odds. If you throw them one at a time, there is a 91/216 chance you'll get one more Will to play with.

Which is better? I'm too lazy right now to minimax this but IMHO it would greatly depend on the circumstances.

Back on subject.

I would take the throwing daggers of the spear guys as, again, you're not going to get much of a chance to use them except in the shoot phase when, chances are, you'll be in combat. I would also give the Galadhrim spears as there's no point in having elven blade and shield. For the left over 32 points (yes, plus the points for taking off throwing daggers), I would drop two wood elf warriors with spears and two wood elf warriors with elven blades and throwing spears to get 4 knights with shields which will help keep models pinned down from nature's wrath.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Not to nitpic, but can WEs from Lothlorien have Throwing Daggers? I don't have LoME with me at work but for some reason this was sticking out in my head as something special to Mirkwood.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Yes they can, the new Lothlorien list was in WD (can't recall the issue) and is available as a PDF from GW.

Cool. I don't get WD and haven't really looked at any of the SBG PDF updates for a while.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

I agree with you about taking away throwing dagger from the spearmen. However, the elven blades are a mainstay for this army. Elves can still win fights with two handed weapons because of their high fight values but it is important to remember that you can't fight through 2-handed weapons. I wound up with all kinds of combat situation when I played this army where I could have 3 regular attacks in order to win the fight, and then add another Warrior using his elven blade to get the wound.

I don't think I would trade out the elven blade. I added shields to those models for obvious reasons.

Don't forget that there's 51 models out there. Do you have a 700 pt army this solid that could out number it? (Moria is not a solid army. )

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

Stormcallers are thranduil hall heros.. so you can just "throw in a sentinel"

so your thranduil hall army list would be:

1xStormcaller
1xSentinel
2xWood elf with elf blade.

so yeah whats the problem?

You can't use an elf blade with two hands while having a shield, which is why everybody puts shields on the spears...otherwise you're paying for an elf blade you can't use.

But the elven blade gives you the option of acting like a two handed weapon or a regular hand weapon. So, when the spears need to fight through, the warrior uses his 1 handed weapon and Shield. When another Sword warrior can jump in on a fight you have the option of using the two handed weapon but not the shield so his defense goes down to 4.

Like the Rumil model, my entire frontline has the option of using 2 handed weapons but they also have higher defense than the typical elven blade warrior. It's already easy for elves to win the fight, this makes it easier to get the wound.

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

!! I forgot.

Why would you add 2 Wood elves to Thranduil's hall army list instead of just one?

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

I hate to break it to you, as you seem to have spent a lot of time converting models to use this tactic, but: "If the warrior also carries a shield or spear then he cannot use his Elven blade as a two-handed weapon..." p44 of the rules.

I believe models can drop equipment (can't find the rules for that just now), so it might be possible that the warrior could drop the shield entirely for the rest of the battle...which would probably require you to swap the model for a model with no shield. Otherwise, there is no way the warrior can use his Elven blade two-handed while carrying a shield.

If you're saying that the model can just " put away his shield but his defence goes down" then I'm pretty sure you are wrong. No 2H weapon if you have a shield, even if you "don't use" the shield. Apologies if this is not what you meant.

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"War does not determine who is right, only who is left."
- Bertrand Russel

Rumil carries a elven blade and a shield. Is he the only model who can use the two together?

The Galadhrim warrior includes the elven blade so you don't "pay" extra for the elven blade but it does include the shield in the items that you are permitted to add to the base profile.

Furthermore, in the spirit of the game, a weapon that is as perfectly balanced as the elven blade, wielded by an expert could easily be used effectively along with a shield. When he's using it as a two-handed weapon, the shield could be on his back and would not add to his defense.

I would argue that b/c the elven blade can be used as a regular hand weapon, the warrior ought to be able to use a shield with it.

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Woodland Realms: 2382 pts: 18/08/2010

I dont think heros count towards the bow limit. They might but im not sure