The One Ring :: View topic - War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR)

Sounds like a good idea, but I have three things that bother me: 1. I think you should just keep the 25% ally limit, and just limit where you can get them from. I understand this is the way its done in SBG, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like SBG (other 2: too slow and too few units)

2. I think the lists are too small. Be a bit less restricitive in what goes where. For instance, allow Wood Elves and Sentinels in the Lothlorien list, or you won't be able to make a proper, varied list without a LOT of allying.

3. I'd say all the Rohirrim lists can ally, all the Elf lists can ally etc.

Little mistake: I saw Theoden's Riders can ally with Eorl's Riders (or what was the exact name), but Eorl can't ally with Theoden. Maybe there are some more things like this.

Otherwise, the idea is good, and (I hope) goes a long way to turning cheese into fluff.

Telchar wrote:

I personally don't like the 25% ally rule, as formations such as The White Council and the Nine are abroad can only be used as allies in games of at least 2000 Points. Also, the 25% allies rule allows formations and heroes from different time periods to be used alongside each other.

Wood Elves are in the Lotlorien list, and Sentinels aren't in there because they're called Mirkwood Sentinels, but they can easily be allied in anyway.

The Rohirrim lists can't ally together because Eorl was dead before Helm Hammerhand was born, and Helm Hammerhand was dead before Theoden was born, so shouldn't be able to be included in the same force. Mostly all armies from the same region can ally together, but armies like the Army of the High King and Eregion were around in the 2nd age, and so shouldn't be used in a 3rd age army, such as the Rangers of Ithilien or Lothlorien.

Well, the White Council or all the Nine together wouldn't be present at the merest skirmish, so thats (IMO) a good thing, not a bad one. The different times are where your lists come in, they stop that, i didn't propose to do away with the limits on which allies to take, but just to skip the you need a hero/legendary and a common formation to ally a rare formation in."

Sorry, I must have missed the Wood Elves, but the sentinels could just as well be used as Lorien Sentinels (like Haldir, Orophin and Rumil), and allying them in requires an Epic and a common, so that gets expensive quick.

Telchar wrote:

That probably wasn't the best example I could have used, but if they are taken that just makes the rest of your army smaller. A better example would have been wanting to have Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli leading Warriors of Rohan and Minas Tirith in a 1500 Point game (representing those who go to attack the Black Gate) - you wouldn't get many Warriors of Rohan - or an Easterling and Orc army (attacking the Walls of Minas Tirith, like in the book) or including Gwaihir and a pair of Eagles in a game of 1000 Points.

Also, linking into my next point slightly, you wouldn't have a formation of Son's of Eorl (Rohan's elite units) fighting alongside the Elves of Lothlorien without there also being normal Riders of Rohan (the main soldiers in Rohan), so why would any other army be any different.

Well, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas would only be present together at really huge battles, and the same goes for Easterlings and Orcs assaulting MT, or Gwaihir and his eagles (who only turn up when the fate of ME in in danger).

Besides that, using my system, you'd get more WOR then using yours.

Why wouldn't Rohan send a small, select force to help the Elves, instead of a mass of troops? The same goes for other armies.

@Chris, do you mind if I do an evil version?

But not everyone plays huge battles, and using the current system people who want to represent part of a larger battle won't be able to include them.
Currently you can ally in 10/11 companies of Easterlings at 1500 Points, with no command, so that's 2x 2 Companies of Easterling Archer Cohort and then 6 Companies of Easterling Cohort with Pikes, and then the rest of your army has to be Orcs.
On the other hand you could include this and then put a Dragon Knight, Drummer and Captain into the formation if you wanted to, and take some Easterling Kataphrakts as well.

In case they get ambushed along the way. Here's a little scenario of what could happen:
Only Elites:
The Rohan Royal Guard are riding through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Royal Guard are slain, but they manage to drive off the Orcs.
With weaker soldiers:
The Rohan Royal Guard are following the Riders of Rohan through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Riders of Rohan and some of the Royal Guard are slain, but as the Royal Guard are better fighters than the Orcs, and are less effected by the Element of Surprise they can help the Rohirrim drive off the Orcs

Well, don't think 8 coy of Easterlings is too bad. 25% of your army really is quite enough. It also is (I just realized) one of the few weapons against cherrypicking allies. In your system, I can make a list like this: 1000 pts Isengard.
Thrydan 50
Khamul 125
Betrayer 125
Knight of Umbar 125
Druzhag 100
4 coy Morannons 100
4 coy Morannons 100
Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105
Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105
Isengard Orc Warband 4 coy 65

If that happened, Thèoden should kill his commander on the spot. Any senseful person would have some scouts sent out, and generally have utilised extreme care, not sent his troops into a trap like that. Besides, it's often better (and has been done often in history, look at the Order of Battle for the 1812 campaign for instance, every country in Europe sent their Guards and Elites to Napoleons armies) to send a small unit of elites to your allies, as they move faster and better hidden and enemy spies wouldn't notice their absence as much as that of thousands of normal warriors.

Why do I allways get caught up in pointless discussion about something that has nothing to do with the OP? I agree to disagree.

As soon as I get the time, I will provide a full analysis of your rules (well the evil side anyway, you don't need help with the good guys)

Author:	Chris GoM [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:	War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good + Evil
In addition to my WotR House Rules (link: viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22069), I've made some army lists for WotR, that I hope will make it more themed, and stop some broken combos being taken. I've also created new units to fill some armies. (see next post) The rules follow the normal rules for army building, however the 25% allies rule is removed. Instead, you may choose any army list under your chosen army's list of allies and include any Legendary Formations and/or Epic Heroes from this new army list. After you have chosen your Epic Hero(s) and/or Legendary Formation(s) you may choose any Common or Rare Formations. - The degree of rarity applies to each army list individually, instead of across the whole army e.g. if you include Floi and 3 companies Dwarf Archer Kinband you couldn't then include Cirdan of the Havens and a High Elf Cohort without including a common formation from the Grey Havens army list Some Epic Heroes/Legendary Formations are included in different army lists. Where this is the case, the Epic Hero/Legendary Formation may only be taken once per army. *Good:* The Fellowship: Epic Heroes: Gandalf the Grey Gandalf the White Boromir, Captain of the White Tower Aragorn, Isildur’s Heir Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel Meriadoc, Esquire of Rohan Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood Gimli, Son of Glóin Legendary Formations: The Fellowship of the Ring The Three Hunters Allies: The Grey Company, Rivendell, The Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wild Men of Drúadan, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the Guardians of the Carrock. Arnor: Epic Heroes: Arvedui, King of Arnor Malbeth the Seer Commander of Arnor Legendary Formations: Royal Guard of Arnor Common Formations: Warriors of Arnor Rangers of Arnor Hobbit Archer Militia Allies: Rivendell, The Grey Havens, Minas Tirith and Khazad-dûm. The Grey Company: Epic Heroes: Aragorn, Isildur’s Heir Elladan Elrohir Legendary Formations: The Grey Company The Dúnedain of Arnor Common Formations: Rangers of Arnor Allies: The Fellowship, Rivendell, The Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Shire: Epic Heroes: Aragorn, Isildur’s Heir Gandalf the Grey Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel Meriadoc, Esquire of Rohan Dúnedain Ranger Legendary Formations: Tom Bombadil Common Formations: Hobbit Militia Hobbit Archer Militia Allies: The Shire may not ally. Rivendell: Epic Heroes: Elrond, Master of Rivendell Arwen Evenstar Elladan Elrohir High Elf Marshall Legendary Formations: Rivendell Guard Glorfindel, Lord of the West Common Formations: High Elf Regiment High Elf Archer Regiment Rare Formations: High Elf Cohort Allies: The Fellowship, Arnor, the Grey Company, the Grey Havens, Lothlorien, Mirkwood, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Minas Tirith, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles, the Guardians of the Carrock and the White Council. The Grey Havens: Epic Heroes: Cirdan of the Havens High Elf Marshall Common Formations: High Elf Regiment High Elf Archer Regiment Rare Formations: High Elf Cohort Guardians of the Havens Allies: The Fellowship, Arnor, the Grey Company, Rivendell, Eregion, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Minas Tirith, the Army of the High King, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Khazad-dûm, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the White Council. Eregion: Epic Heroes: Elrond, Master of Rivendell Gil-Galad, High King of the Elves High Elf Marshall Legendary Formations: Rivendell Guard Common Formations: High Elf Regiment High Elf Archer Regiment Rare Formations: High Elf Cohort High Elf Knights Allies: The Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, the Army of the High King and Durin’s Folk. Lothlórien: Epic Heroes: Galadriel, Lady of Lothlórien Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlórien Celeborn, Lord of Lothlórien Haldir, Guardian of Lórien Elf Marshall Legendary Formations: Guardians of Calas Galadhon Haldir’s Elves Common Formations: Galadhrim Regiment Galadrim Archer Regiment Wood Elf Warband Rare Formations: Galadhrim Knight Regiment Guards of the Galadhrim Court Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, The Grey Havens, Eregion, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, the Host of the Hammerhand, Théoden’s Riders, Minas Tirith, the Army of the High King, Durin’s Folk, Khazad-dûm, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. Mirkwood: Epic Heroes: Thranduil, King of Mirkwood Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood Elf Marshall Common Formations: Wood Elf Warband Mirkwood Stalkers Rare Formations: Mirkwood Sentinels Allies: The Fellowship, The Grey Company, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Eregion, Lothlórien, The Forest of Fangorn, the Riders of Eorl, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Army of the High King, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Forest of Fangorn: Legendary Formations: Treebeard Quickbeam Beechbone Common Formations: Ent Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, The Grey Havens, Eregion, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, the Host of the Hammerhand, Théoden’s Riders, Minas Tirith, the Army of the High King, Durin’s Folk, Khazad-dûm, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. The Riders of Eorl: Epic Heroes: Eorl the Young Commander of Rohan Legendary Formations: Eorl’s Knights Common Formations: Riders of Rohan Éored Royal Knights Outrider Éored Rare Formations: The Sons of Eorl Allies: Thranduil’s Halls and Minas Tirith. The Host of the Hammerhand: Epic Heroes: Helm Hammerhand Commander of Rohan Legendary Formations: Helm’s Guard Knights of Helm’s Deep Common Formations: Riders of Rohan Éored Royal Knights Oathsworn Militia Oathsworn Bowmen Outrider Éored Rohan Royal Guard Rare Formations: The Sons of Eorl Allies: Lothlórien, Minas Tirith and Durin’s Folk. Théoden’s Riders: Epic Heroes: Théoden, King of Rohan Éomer, Marshall of the Riddermark Éowyn, Shield-Maiden of Rohan Erkenbrand, Captain of the Westfold Théodred, Prince of Rohan Meriadoc, Esquire of Rohan Déorwine, Captain of the Royal Guard Commander of Rohan Legendary Formations: The King’s Guard Erkenbrand’s Riders Théodred’s Knights Grimbold’s Helmingas Elfhelm’s Riders Common Formations: Riders of Rohan Éored Royal Knights Oathsworn Militia Oathsworn Bowmen Outrider Éored Rohan Royal Guard Rare Formations: The Sons of Eorl Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Lothlórien, The Forest of Fangorn, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, the Wild Men of Drúadan, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. The White Tower: Epic Heroes: Boromir, Captain of the White Tower Aragorn, Isildur’s Heir Faramir Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel Commander of Minas Tirith Legendary Formations: Denethor’s Guard Warden’s of the Keys Common Formations: Minas Tirith Warriors Minas Tirith Archers Minas Tirith Knights Citadel Guards Rare Formations: Guards of the Fountain Court Avenger Bolt Thrower Battlecry Trebuchet Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Théoden’s Riders, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wild Men of Drúadan, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. Minas Tirith: Epic Heroes: King of Gondor Steward of Gondor Commander of Minas Tirith Legendary Formations: Guards of the King Common Formations: Minas Tirith Warriors Minas Tirith Archers Minas Tirith Knights Rangers of Gondor Citadel Guards Rare Formations: Guards of the Fountain Court Battlecry Trebuchet Allies: The Fellowship, Arnor, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien, The Forest of Fangorn, the Riders of Eorl, the Host of the Hammerhand, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. The Fiefdoms of Gondor: Epic Heroes: Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth Forlong the Fat Angbor the Fearless Commander of Dol Amroth Legendary Formations: Blackroot Vale Archers Common Formations: Rangers of Gondor Men-at-Arms of Dol Amroth Foot Knights of Dol Amroth Knights of Dol Amroth Rare Formations: Axemen of Lossarnach Clansmen of Lamedon Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles The Army of the High King: Epic Heroes: High King Elendil Isildur Commander of Númenor Legendary Formations: Knights of Númenor Common Formations: Númenórean Warriors Númenórean Archers Rare Formations: Rangers of Númenor Allies: The Grey Havens, Eregion, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn and Durin’s Folk. The Rangers of Ithilien: Epic Heroes: Faramir Commander of Minas Tirith Legendary Formations: Rangers of Ithilien Osgiliath Veterans Common Formations: Minas Tirith Warriors Minas Tirith Archers Rangers of Gondor Citadel Guards Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Mirkwood, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. The Dead of Dunharrow: Epic Heroes: Aragorn, Isildur’s Heir Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood Gimli, son of Glóin Elladan Elrohir The King of the Dead Legendary Formations: The Grey Company The Three Hunters Court of the Dead King Common Formations: Warriors of the Dead Rare Formations: Riders of the Dead Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, the Wanderers in the Wild and the Wizards The Dead Walk Again: Any Epic Hero from this army list may join formations of Warriors of the Dead and Riders of the Dead. Aragorn may also join the Court of the Dead King. Durin’s Folk: Epic Heroes: Dwarf King Dwarf Marshall Múrin and Drár Legendary Formations: Múrin’s Guard Drár’s Hunters Common Formations: Dwarf Warrior Kinband Dwarf Archer Kinband Dwarf Ranger Kinband Rare Formations: Khâzad Guard Kinband Dwarf Ballista Ered Luin Rangers King’s Champion Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Eregion, Lothlórien, the Host of the Hammerhand, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, the Army of the High King, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the Guardians of Carrock. Khâzad-Dum: Epic Heroes: Durin, King of Khâzad-Dum Mardin, Protector of Durin Dwarf Marshall Flói Stonehand, Loremaster of Moria Legendary Formations: Durin’s Guard Common Formations: Dwarf Warrior Kinband Dwarf Archer Kinband Dwarf Ranger Kinband Rare Formations: Khâzad Guard Kinband Iron Guard Kinband Vault Warden Kinband Dwarf Ballista Iron Guard Ancients King’s Champion Allies: Arnor, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien and The Forest of Fangorn. Erebor: Epic Heroes: Dáin Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain Balin, Lord of Moria Gimli, Son of Glóin Múrin’s Guard Drár’s Hunters Dwarf Marshall Múrin and Drár Legendary Formations: Múrin’s Guard Drár’s Hunters Common Formations: Dwarf Warrior Kinband Dwarf Archer Kinband Dwarf Ranger Kinband Rare Formations: Khâzad Guard Kinband Iron Guard Kinband Dwarf Ballista Moria Expeditionaries King’s Champion Allies: The Fellowship, Rivendell, Mirkwood, the White Tower, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards, the Eagles and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Wild Men of Drúadan: Legendary Formations: Woses Warband Allies: The Fellowship, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower and the Wizards. The Wanderers in the Wild: Epic Heroes: Múrin and Drár Legendary Formations: Gildor’s Household Glorfindel, Lord of the West Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wizards and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Wizards: Epic Heroes: Saruman the White Gandalf the Grey Gandalf the White (may not be taken alongside Saruman) Radagast the Brown Legendary Formations: The Council of Wizardry Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Dead of Dunharrow, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wild Men of Drúadan, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Eagles and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Eagles: Legendary Formations: Gwaihir Common Formations: Great Eagle Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, The Forest of Fangorn, Théoden’s Riders, the White Tower, Minas Tirith, the Rangers of Ithilien, the Fiefdoms of Gondor, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wizards and the Guardians of the Carrock. The Guardians of the Carrock: Legendary Formations: Wardens of the Carrock Allies: The Fellowship, the Grey Company, Rivendell, Mirkwood, Durin’s Folk, Erebor, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Eagles. The White Council: Epic Heroes: Elrond, Master of Rivendell Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlórien Gandalf the Grey Saruman the White Legendary Formations: The White Council Allies: Rivendell, the Grey Havens, Lothlórien, Mirkwood, the Wanderers in the Wild, the Wizards and the Guardians of the Carrock. *Evil:* The Misty Mountains: Epic Heroes: Durbûrz, Goblin King of Moria Drûzhag, the Beastcaller Moria Goblin Driver Gollum Common Formations: Moria Goblin Warband Moria Prowler Warband Cloud of Bats Rare Formations: Cave Troll Gundabad Blackshields Allies: Angmar, Dunland, the Scouts of Isengard, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Barad-dûr, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgûl. Angmar: Epic Heroes: The Witch-King of Angmar Drûzhag, the Beastcaller Great Warg Legendary Formations: Gûlavhar, the Terror of Arnor Buhrdûr Common Formations: Warg Pack Ghostly Legion Ghostly Riders Spectral Host Carn Dûm Warband Angmar Orc Warband Rare Formations: Court of Fallen Kings Shade Werewolf Pack Cave Troll Allies: The Misty Mountains, the Dwellers Below, Dunland, Barad-dûr, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgûl. The Dwellers Below: Epic Heroes: Drûzhag, the Beastcaller Moria Goblin Driver Great Warg Common Formations: Moria Goblin Warband Warg Pack Giant Spider Brood Cloud of Bats Rare Formations: Cave Troll Gundabad Blackshields Allies: Angmar, Dunland, the Black Gate of Mordor, Minas Morgul, Barad-dûr, Rhûn and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgûl. The Scouts of Isengard: Epic Heroes: Lurtz Uruk-Hai Marshall Legendary Formations: Uglûk’s Raiders Vrashkû’s Talons Sharku’s Hunters Mauhúr’s Marauders Common Formations: Uruk-Hai Scout Warband Isengard Orc Warband (1 per Legendary Formation or Epic Hero) Rare Formations: Feral Uruk-Hai Warg Rider Warband Wild Men of Dunland Allies: The Misty Mountains, the Army of the White Wizard, Dunland, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Minas Morgul, and the Nazgûl. The Army of the White Wizard: Epic Heroes: Saruman the White Hand Gríma Wormtongue Uruk-Hai Marshall Common Formations: Uruk-Hai Phalanx Uruk-Hai Warband Uruk-Hai Scout Warband Rare Formations: Isengard Orc Warband Uruk-Hai Sappers Uruk-Hai Berserker Warband Isengard Troll Isengard Troll Captain Isengard Battering Ram Isengard Assault Ballista Allies: The Scouts of Isengard, Dunland and the Nazgûl. Dunland: Epic Heroes: Thrydan Wolfsbane Legendary Formations: Royalblood Hurscals Common Formations: Dunlending Hurscals Wild Men of Dunland Warg Pack Rare Formations: Dunlending Horsemen Isengard Orc Warband Sharkey’s Ruffians (0-1) Allies: The Dwellers Below, Angmar, the Scouts of Isengard, the Army of the White Hand, and the Nazgul. The Ravagers of the Shire: Epic Heroes: Sharkey Common Formations: Sharkey’s Ruffians Isengard Orc Warband Bree-men Rare Formations: Wild Men of Dunland Warg Pack Allies: The Ravagers of the Shire may not ally. Cirith Ungol: Epic Heroes: Orc Overlord Gorbag and Shagrat Legendary Formations: Shagrat’s Tower Guard Gorbag’s Morgul Rats Shelob (may not be the army leader) Common Formations: Mordor Orc Warband Orc Tracker Warband Warg Rider Warband Mordor Uruk-Hai Warband Rare Formations: Mordor Troll Mordor Troll Drummer Black Guard of Barad-dûr War Catapult Battery Siege Bow Battery Allies: The Black Gate of Mordor, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. The Black Gate of Mordor: Epic Heroes: The Mouth of Sauron Orc Overlord Legendary Formation: Troll Chieftain of the Black Gate Guards of the Black Gate Common Formations: Morannon Orc Warband Orc Tracker Warband Mordor Uruk-Hai Warband Rare Formations: Mordor Troll Mordor Troll Drummer Mordor Troll Chieftain Black Guard of Barad-dûr Allies: The Dwellers Below, Cirith Ungol, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. The Shadow of Dol Guldur: Epic Heroes: Khamûl the Easterling 0-2 Ringwraiths (they may be; the Undying and/or the Tainted) Orc Overlord Legendary Formations: The Necromancer of Dol Guldur Castellans of Dol Guldur Common Formations: Mordor Orc Warband Warg Pack Giant Spider Brood Cloud of Bats Rare Formations: Mordor Troll Mordor Troll Drummer Black Guard of Barad-dûr War Catapult Battery Spider Queen Spider Broodling Swarm Werewolf Pack Allies: The Dwellers Below, the Scouts of Isengard, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. Minas Morgul: Epic Heroes: Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul Kârdush the Firecaller Orc Overlord Legendary Formations: Grishnákh’s Trackers Winged Nazgûl – The Witch-King of Angmar Common Formations: Mordor Orc Warband Orc Tracker Warband Black Númenórean Regiment Rare Formations: Spectral Host Morgul Stalker Warband War Catapult Battery Mordor Battering Ram Morgul Knight Regiment Allies: The Dwellers Below, the Scouts of Isengard, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Mahud of Far Harad, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. Barad-Dûr: Epic Heroes: The Mouth of Sauron Kârdush the Firecaller Orc Overlord Legendary Formations: Sauron, the Dark Lord of Mordor Common Formations: Mordor Orc Warband Morannon Orc Warband Orc Tracker Warband Warg Rider Warband Rare Formations: Black Guard of Barad-dûr War Catapult Battery Siege Bow Battery Mordor Battering Ram Allies: The Misty Mountains, Angmar, the Dwellers Below, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Minas Morgul, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Rhun and Khand, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. Rhûn and Khand: Epic Heroes: Khamûl the Easterling Amdûr, Lord of Blades Legendary Formations: The Dragon Guard Khandish King Common Formations: Khandish Mercenary Warband Khandish Mercenary Raiders Easterling Cohort Easterling Archer Cohort Easterling Kataphrakt Cohort Rare Formations: Khandish Charioteer (may not have Khandish King upgrade) Allies: The Dwellers Below, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. Horde of the Serpent Lord: Epic Heroes: Suludân, the Serpent Lord Haradrim Overseer Legendary Formation: Abrakhân Guard Spear’s of the Serpent Common Formations: Haradrim Warband Haradrim Raider Warband Serpent Guard Warband Serpent Rider Warband Rare Formations: Watcher Warband War Mûmak of Harad Allies: The Dwellers Below, the Black Gate of Mordor, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Harad and Umbar, the Mahud of Far Harad, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. Harad and Umbar: Epic Heroes: Haradrim King Dalamyr, Fleetmaster of Umbar Queen Berúthiel Haradrim Overseer Legendary Formations: Abrakhân Guard Common Formations: Haradrim Warband Haradrim Raider Warband Corsair Raiding Party Rare Formations: Watcher Warband War Mûmak of Harad Corsair Arbalesters Allies: The Misty Mountains, Angmar, the Dwellers Below, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, the Mahud of Far Harad, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. The Mahûd of Far Harad: Epic Heroes: The Mahûd King Legendary Formations: The Beastmaster’s Mûmak Mahûd Guard Common Formations: Mahûd Warband Mahûd Raider Warband Rare Formations: Half Troll Warband War Mûmak of Harad War Mûmak of Far Harad Allies: The Black Gate of Mordor, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Monsters in Middle Earth and the Nazgul. The Monsters in Middle Earth: Rare Formations: The Balrog of Morgoth Dragon of Ancient Times Stone Giant Cave Drake Allies: The Misty Mountains, Angmar, the Dwellers Below, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Mahud of Far Harad and the Nazgul. Creatures of Darkness: Any formation chosen from this army list counts as a part of your original army list. E.g. if you take a Dragon of Ancient Times, and your main army list is the Mines of Moria, the Dragon counts a part of the Mines of Moria, and thus a common formation from the Mines of Moria must be taken for the Dragon to be used. The Nazgul: Epic Heroes: The Ringwraiths Legendary Formations: Winged Nazgul Twilight Ringwraiths The Nine are Abroad Allies: The Misty Mountains, Angmar, the Dwellers Below, the Scouts of Isengard, the Army of the White Hand, Dunland, Cirith Ungol, the Black Gate of Mordor, the Shadow of Dol Guldur, Minas Morgul, Barad-dur, Rhun and Khand, Horde of the Serpent Lord, Harad and Umbar, the Mahud of Far Harad and the Monsters in Middle Earth. This was a word document previously, I've just copy and pasted it from there. If you want the word document, just pm me and I'll send it to you Some army lists may change. Comments and criticisms welcome

Author:	Chris GoM [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good + new
Here are the rules, taken from the word document (as it's impossible (I think) to get tables on here) as well as what army list they come from below for use in normal games of WotR *Good:* The Knights of Númenor have been named the Guards of the King by accident. Arvedui, Last King of Arnor – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Malbeth the Seer – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Commander of Arnor – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Dúnedain Ranger – Epic Hero – The Forgotten Kingdoms High Elf Marshall – Epic Hero – The Elven Kingdoms Guardians of the Havens – Rare Formation – The Elven Kingdoms High Elf Knights – Rare Formation – The Elven Kingdoms Elf Marshall – Epic Hero – The Elven Kingdoms Mirkwood Stalkers – Rare Formation – The Elven Kingdoms Commander of Rohan – Epic Hero – The Kingdom of Rohan Eorl’s Knights – Legendary Formation – The Kingdom of Rohan Helm Hammerhand – Epic Hero – The Kingdom of Rohan Helm’s Guard– Legendary Formation – The Kingdom of Rohan Knights of Helms Deep – Legendary Formation – The Kingdom of Rohan Commander of Minas Tirith – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor King of Gondor – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Steward of Gondor – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Guards of the King – Legendary Formation – Gondor and Arnor Angbor the Fearless – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Forlong the Fat – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Commander of Dol Amroth – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Knights of Númenor – Legendary Formation – Gondor and Arnor Rangers of Númenor – Rare Formation – Gondor and Arnor The King of the Dead – Epic Hero – Gondor and Arnor Dwarf King – Epic Hero – The Dwarf Holds Dwarf Marshall – Epic Hero – The Dwarf Holds Múrin and Drár – Epic Hero – The Dwarf Holds Durin, King of Khâzad-Dum – Epic Hero – The Dwarf Holds Mardin, Protector of Durin – Epic Hero – The Dwarf Holds *Evil:* Moria Goblin Driver - Epic Hero - The Misty Mountains Great Warg - Epic Hero - The Misty Mountains Uruk-Hai Marshall - Epic Hero - Isengard Royalblood Hurscals - Legendary Formation - Isengard Sharkey - Epic Hero - Isengard Bree-men - Rare Formation - Isengard Orc Overlord - Epic Hero - Mordor Gorbag and Shagrat - Epic Hero - Mordor Troll Chieftain of the Black Gate - Legendary Formation - Mordor Guards of the Black Gate - Legendary Formation - Mordor The Dragon Guard - Legendary Formation - The Fallen Realms Haradrim Overseer - Epic Hero - The Fallen Realms Spears of the Serpent - Legendary Formation - The Fallen Realms The Mahud King - Epic Hero - The Fallen Realms The Beastmaster's Mumak - Legendary Formation - The Fallen Realms Mahud Guard - Legendary Formation - The Fallen Realms War Mumak of Far Harad - Rare Formation - the Fallen Realms If you want the word document just pm me Comments and criticisms welcome

Author:	Telchar [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:01 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Sounds like a good idea, but I have three things that bother me: 1. I think you should just keep the 25% ally limit, and just limit where you can get them from. I understand this is the way its done in SBG, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like SBG (other 2: too slow and too few units) 2. I think the lists are too small. Be a bit less restricitive in what goes where. For instance, allow Wood Elves and Sentinels in the Lothlorien list, or you won't be able to make a proper, varied list without a LOT of allying. 3. I'd say all the Rohirrim lists can ally, all the Elf lists can ally etc. Little mistake: I saw Theoden's Host can ally with Eorl's Riders (or what was the exact name), but Eorl can't ally with Theoden. Maybe there are some more things like this. Otherwise, the idea is good, and (I hope) goes a long way to turning cheese into fluff.

Author:	Chris GoM [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Thank you for your reply, I'll address each comment separately. Telchar wrote: Sounds like a good idea, but I have three things that bother me: 1. I think you should just keep the 25% ally limit, and just limit where you can get them from. I understand this is the way its done in SBG, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like SBG (other 2: too slow and too few units) I personally don't like the 25% ally rule, as formations such as The White Council and the Nine are abroad can only be used as allies in games of at least 2000 Points. Also, the 25% allies rule allows formations and heroes from different time periods to be used alongside each other. Telchar wrote: 2. I think the lists are too small. Be a bit less restricitive in what goes where. For instance, allow Wood Elves and Sentinels in the Lothlorien list, or you won't be able to make a proper, varied list without a LOT of allying. Wood Elves are in the Lotlorien list, and Sentinels aren't in there because they're called Mirkwood Sentinels, but they can easily be allied in anyway. Telchar wrote: 3. I'd say all the Rohirrim lists can ally, all the Elf lists can ally etc. The Rohirrim lists can't ally together because Eorl was dead before Helm Hammerhand was born, and Helm Hammerhand was dead before Theoden was born, so shouldn't be able to be included in the same force. Mostly all armies from the same region can ally together, but armies like the Army of the High King and Eregion were around in the 2nd age, and so shouldn't be used in a 3rd age army, such as the Rangers of Ithilien or Lothlorien. Telchar wrote: Little mistake: I saw Theoden's Riders can ally with Eorl's Riders (or what was the exact name), but Eorl can't ally with Theoden. Maybe there are some more things like this. Theoden's Riders can't ally with the Riders of Eorl, but the Sons of Eorl is a Rare Formation that can be included in the army list, but thanks for pointing it out anyway. Telchar wrote: Otherwise, the idea is good, and (I hope) goes a long way to turning cheese into fluff. Thank you Chris

Author:	Telchar [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Chris GoM wrote: Telchar wrote: Sounds like a good idea, but I have three things that bother me: 1. I think you should just keep the 25% ally limit, and just limit where you can get them from. I understand this is the way its done in SBG, but that's one of the reasons why I don't like SBG (other 2: too slow and too few units) I personally don't like the 25% ally rule, as formations such as The White Council and the Nine are abroad can only be used as allies in games of at least 2000 Points. Also, the 25% allies rule allows formations and heroes from different time periods to be used alongside each other. Well, the White Council or all the Nine together wouldn't be present at the merest skirmish, so thats (IMO) a good thing, not a bad one. The different times are where your lists come in, they stop that, i didn't propose to do away with the limits on which allies to take, but just to skip the ÿou need a hero/legendary and a common formation to ally a rare formation in." Chris GoM wrote: Wood Elves are in the Lotlorien list, and Sentinels aren't in there because they're called Mirkwood Sentinels, but they can easily be allied in anyway. Sorry, I must have missed the Wood Elves, but the sentinels could just as well be used as Lorien Sentinels (like Haldir, Orophin and Rumil), and allying them in requires an Epic and a common, so that gets expensive quick. Quote: The Rohirrim lists can't ally together because Eorl was dead before Helm Hammerhand was born, and Helm Hammerhand was dead before Theoden was born, so shouldn't be able to be included in the same force. Mostly all armies from the same region can ally together, but armies like the Army of the High King and Eregion were around in the 2nd age, and so shouldn't be used in a 3rd age army, such as the Rangers of Ithilien or Lothlorien. You have a point. I should read posts better before commenting

The One Ring http://gbain.powweb.com/

War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good + Evil http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=22078	Page 1 of 1

Author:	Hilbert [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 8:23 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Awesome

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Personally, I'd be more interested in the Evil side, but if you don't, I'll do it myself when i've finished my mountain of uni essays. Anyway, what you've done with them looks very good, rich in detail and well though out (exept the Rohan bit already covered).

Author:	Chris GoM [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Telchar wrote: Well, the White Council or all the Nine together wouldn't be present at the merest skirmish, so thats (IMO) a good thing, not a bad one. The different times are where your lists come in, they stop that, i didn't propose to do away with the limits on which allies to take, but just to skip the you need a hero/legendary and a common formation to ally a rare formation in." That probably wasn't the best example I could have used, but if they are taken that just makes the rest of your army smaller. A better example would have been wanting to have Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli leading Warriors of Rohan and Minas Tirith in a 1500 Point game (representing those who go to attack the Black Gate) - you wouldn't get many Warriors of Rohan - or an Easterling and Orc army (attacking the Walls of Minas Tirith, like in the book) or including Gwaihir and a pair of Eagles in a game of 1000 Points. Also, linking into my next point slightly, you wouldn't have a formation of Son's of Eorl (Rohan's elite units) fighting alongside the Elves of Lothlorien without there also being normal Riders of Rohan (the main soldiers in Rohan), so why would any other army be any different. Telchar wrote: Sorry, I must have missed the Wood Elves, but the sentinels could just as well be used as Lorien Sentinels (like Haldir, Orophin and Rumil), and allying them in requires an Epic and a common, so that gets expensive quick. I see what you're trying to say, but surely that is the choice of the player; they can use the Mirkwood army list and ally in the units they want, or use a different army list and ally the units from Mirkwood. The Sentinels are Mirkwood's Elite, they wouldn't fight alongside Elves of Lothlorien without normal Wood Elves with them. The Elite wouldn't go without the normal soldiers. It would cost 300-400 Points to include an Elf Marshall, 3-4 Companies of Wood Elves and 3-4 Companies of Sentinels, which seems expensive in smaller games (less than 850), but most people play at least 1000 Points. If you're going to play lower points then you're going to choose to use Mirkwood because Sentinels are unique to that army list. Lothlorien has more variety and has the Galadhrim Warriors as common formations, so if you're using Lothlorien because it has Galadhrim then you may as well use Mirkwood because it has Sentinels.

Author:	Telchar [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Chris GoM wrote: Telchar wrote: Well, the White Council or all the Nine together wouldn't be present at the merest skirmish, so thats (IMO) a good thing, not a bad one. The different times are where your lists come in, they stop that, i didn't propose to do away with the limits on which allies to take, but just to skip the you need a hero/legendary and a common formation to ally a rare formation in." That probably wasn't the best example I could have used, but if they are taken that just makes the rest of your army smaller. A better example would have been wanting to have Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli leading Warriors of Rohan and Minas Tirith in a 1500 Point game (representing those who go to attack the Black Gate) - you wouldn't get many Warriors of Rohan - or an Easterling and Orc army (attacking the Walls of Minas Tirith, like in the book) or including Gwaihir and a pair of Eagles in a game of 1000 Points. Also, linking into my next point slightly, you wouldn't have a formation of Son's of Eorl (Rohan's elite units) fighting alongside the Elves of Lothlorien without there also being normal Riders of Rohan (the main soldiers in Rohan), so why would any other army be any different. Well, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas would only be present together at really huge battles, and the same goes for Easterlings and Orcs assaulting MT, or Gwaihir and his eagles (who only turn up when the fate of ME in in danger). Besides that, using my system, you'd get more WOR then using yours. Why wouldn't Rohan send a small, select force to help the Elves, instead of a mass of troops? The same goes for other armies. Telchar wrote: Sorry, I must have missed the Wood Elves, but the sentinels could just as well be used as Lorien Sentinels (like Haldir, Orophin and Rumil), and allying them in requires an Epic and a common, so that gets expensive quick. I see what you're trying to say, but surely that is the choice of the player; they can use the Mirkwood army list and ally in the units they want, or use a different army list and ally the units from Mirkwood. The Sentinels are Mirkwood's Elite, they wouldn't fight alongside Elves of Lothlorien without normal Wood Elves with them. The Elite wouldn't go without the normal soldiers. It would cost 300-400 Points to include an Elf Marshall, 3-4 Companies of Wood Elves and 3-4 Companies of Sentinels, which seems expensive in smaller games (less than 850), but most people play at least 1000 Points. If you're going to play lower points then you're going to choose to use Mirkwood because Sentinels are unique to that army list. Lothlorien has more variety and has the Galadhrim Warriors as common formations, so if you're using Lothlorien because it has Galadhrim then you may as well use Mirkwood because it has Sentinels.[/quote]

Author:	Chris GoM [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Telchar wrote: Well, Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas would only be present together at really huge battles, and the same goes for Easterlings and Orcs assaulting MT, or Gwaihir and his eagles (who only turn up when the fate of ME in in danger). But not everyone plays huge battles, and using the current system people who want to represent part of a larger battle won't be able to include them. Currently you can ally in 10/11 companies of Easterlings at 1500 Points, with no command, so that's 2x 2 Companies of Easterling Archer Cohort and then 6 Companies of Easterling Cohort with Pikes, and then the rest of your army has to be Orcs. On the other hand you could include this and then put a Dragon Knight, Drummer and Captain into the formation if you wanted to, and take some Easterling Kataphrakts as well. Telchar wrote: Besides that, using my system, you'd get more WOR then using yours. Sounds like a challenge If you were including Legolas and Gimli, then you won't. 1/4 of 1500 = 375. Gimli + Legolas = 375. No Warriors of Rohan. Telchar wrote: Why wouldn't Rohan send a small, select force to help the Elves, instead of a mass of troops? The same goes for other armies. In case they get ambushed along the way. Here's a little scenario of what could happen: Only Elites: The Rohan Royal Guard are riding through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Royal Guard are slain, but they manage to drive off the Orcs. With weaker soldiers: The Rohan Royal Guard are following the Riders of Rohan through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Riders of Rohan and some of the Royal Guard are slain, but as the Royal Guard are better fighters than the Orcs, and are less effected by the Element of Surprise they can help the Rohirrim drive off the Orcs Effectively the weaker warriors act as arrow fodder/bait. GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: @Chris, do you mind if I do an evil version? You may, but I have already started the evil version, so I may not use yours.

Author:	Telchar [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Quote: But not everyone plays huge battles, and using the current system people who want to represent part of a larger battle won't be able to include them. Currently you can ally in 10/11 companies of Easterlings at 1500 Points, with no command, so that's 2x 2 Companies of Easterling Archer Cohort and then 6 Companies of Easterling Cohort with Pikes, and then the rest of your army has to be Orcs. On the other hand you could include this and then put a Dragon Knight, Drummer and Captain into the formation if you wanted to, and take some Easterling Kataphrakts as well. Well, don't think 8 coy of Easterlings is too bad. 25% of your army really is quite enough. It also is (I just realized) one of the few weapons against cherrypicking allies. In your system, I can make a list like this: 1000 pts Isengard. Thrydan 50 Khamul 125 Betrayer 125 Knight of Umbar 125 Druzhag 100 4 coy Morannons 100 4 coy Morannons 100 Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105 Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105 Isengard Orc Warband 4 coy 65 Witch is the ugliest thing I can come up with this quickly. I'm sure someone like Blackmist over on TLA, or Xelee (who doesn't use cheese, but seems to have met his share) could come up with something far worse. Quote: In case they get ambushed along the way. Here's a little scenario of what could happen: Only Elites: The Rohan Royal Guard are riding through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Royal Guard are slain, but they manage to drive off the Orcs. With weaker soldiers: The Rohan Royal Guard are following the Riders of Rohan through the forest to help the Elves of Lothlorien, when suddenly some Orcs leap from the trees, attacking the Rohirrim. Many of the Riders of Rohan and some of the Royal Guard are slain, but as the Royal Guard are better fighters than the Orcs, and are less effected by the Element of Surprise they can help the Rohirrim drive off the Orcs If that happened, Thèoden should kill his commander on the spot. Any senseful person would have some scouts sent out, and generally have utilised extreme care, not sent his troops into a trap like that. Besides, it's often better (and has been done often in history, look at the Order of Battle for the 1812 campaign for instance, every country in Europe sent their Guards and Elites to Napoleons armies) to send a small unit of elites to your allies, as they move faster and better hidden and enemy spies wouldn't notice their absence as much as that of thousands of normal warriors.

Author:	Chris GoM [ Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good +new u
Evil Army Lists have been added to the first post. Telchar wrote: Well, don't think 8 coy of Easterlings is too bad. 25% of your army really is quite enough. It also is (I just realized) one of the few weapons against cherrypicking allies. In your system, I can make a list like this: 1000 pts Isengard. Thrydan 50 Khamul 125 Betrayer 125 Knight of Umbar 125 Druzhag 100 4 coy Morannons 100 4 coy Morannons 100 Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105 Uruk Crossbows 3 coy 105 Isengard Orc Warband 4 coy 65 This isn't possible in my system, as the Evil army will have similar army lists to those of the Good side, just for Evil (see 2nd half of first post). Also the costs of Ringwraiths, Thrydan and Morannon Orcs have been increased (see the link in the first post). Telchar wrote: If that happened, Thèoden should kill his commander on the spot. Any senseful person would have some scouts sent out, and generally have utilised extreme care, not sent his troops into a trap like that. Besides, it's often better (and has been done often in history, look at the Order of Battle for the 1812 campaign for instance, every country in Europe sent their Guards and Elites to Napoleons armies) to send a small unit of elites to your allies, as they move faster and better hidden and enemy spies wouldn't notice their absence as much as that of thousands of normal warriors. Scouts can be killed on their way back to the main group of riders, and enemy armies can also take extreme care not to be spotted by scouts. I admit elites would be sent alone to help, such as your example above, but you could also send normal soldiers to help, and it also stops the spamming of powerful units allied with cheap units. How about we agree to disagree?

Author:	Telchar [ Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good + Evil
Well, it's difficult to hide 500-600 Orcs (which is about the minimum to ambush 50-100 Rohan Royal Guard) so that a group of proper scouts wouldn't notice them at all. And the scouts would remain within hearing distance of the main column, and just shout when they find something. Why do I allways get caught up in pointless discussion about something that has nothing to do with the OP? I agree to disagree.

Author:	GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Dec 20, 2011 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - Good + Evil
As soon as I get the time, I will provide a full analysis of your rules (well the evil side anyway, you don't need help with the good guys)

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Author:	Chris GoM [ Wed Dec 21, 2011 7:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: War of the Ring Army Lists (LoME for WotR) - "Finished"
I've posted the rules for the formations and Epic Heroes that are listed for the evil side, but don't currently have rules, in the 2nd of half of post 2. Telchar wrote: Why do I allways get caught up in pointless discussion about something that has nothing to do with the OP? I agree to disagree. What good topic doesn't GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: As soon as I get the time, I will provide a full analysis of your rules (well the evil side anyway, you don't need help with the good guys) Thanks Gothmog