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Alternative WOTR Points Values
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Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Alternative WOTR Points Values
This post does what it says on the tin and is another possible approach I am considering. Below are all the formations, heroes, upgrade and monsters that are affected. If a formation or hero does not appear below then its original points value should be used. Similarly in the case of some Legendary formations, either the legondary cost or the point per company appears. This means that for the rest of the points, use the points on in the WOTR book. Also where are formation can cost +5pts for additional wargear eg Wood Elves or Morannon orcs, then, unlesss stated, the extra cost does not change (so both of the egs will cost 30pts / company):

Command Options
Hero: 40pts
Banner Bearer: 20pts
Hornblower/Drummer: 10pts
Taskmaster: 20pts
Shaman/Stormcaller/War Priest: 50pts
Corsair Bo’sun: 30pts
Dragon Knight: no change
Dwarf Shieldbearer: no change
Goblin Drum: 55pts
Hasharin: 30pts
Knight of the White Tower: 50pts
King's Huntsman: 45pts

Gondor & Arnor
Minas Tirith Warriors: 30pts / comp
Minas Tirith Archers: no change
Minas Tirith Knights: no change
Rangers of Gondor: 25pts / comp
Númenorean Warriors: no change
Númenorean Archers: 25pts / comp
Warriors of Arnor: 30pts / comp
Rangers of Arnor: 25pts / comp
Citadel Guards: 30pts / comp, may take longbows or shields, increasing defence to 5(7), for +5pts / comp
Men-at-arms of Dol Amroth: 25pts /comp
Foot Knights of Dol Amroth: 35pts / comp
Knights of Dol Amroth: 40pts / comp
Guards of the Fountain Court: 30pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 6(8) for +5pts / comp
Avenger Bolt Thrower: 40pts / comp
Battlecry Trebuchet: 75pts /comp
Warriors of the Dead: 35pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 5(7), or pikes for +5pts / comp
Riders of the Dead: 35pts / comp may take shields, increasing defence to 5(6) for +5pts / comp
Axemen of Lossarnach: no change
Clansmen of Lamedon: 25pts / comp
Rangers of Ithilien: Legendary cost: 75pts, +25pts / comp
Denethor’s Guard: Legendary cost: 95pts, +30pts / comp, may take longbows or shields, increasing defence to 5(7), for +5pts / comp
Osgiliath Veteran’s: Legendary cost: 85pts
Court of the Dead King: Legendary cost: 70pts, +35pts / comp, may take pikes or shields, increasing defence to 5(7), for +5pts / comp
The Dunedain of Arnor: Legendary cost: 60pts, 30pts / comp
The Grey Company: Legendary cost: 65pts, +35pts / comp, +25pts for the Banner of the King
Royal Guard of Arnor: Legendary cost: 95pts
Wardens of the Keys: Legendary cost: 80pts, +40pts /comp
Blackroot Vale Archers: Legendary cost: 65pts
Boromir, Captain of the White Tower: additional cost for the Banner of Minas Tirith: 30pts
Aragorn, Isildur's Heir: no change
Faramir: 125pts
Peregrin Took, Guard of the Citadel: 35pts
Prince Imrahil of Dol Amroth: 120pts
High King Elendil: 205pts
Isildur: 105pts

The Kingdom of Rohan
Riders of Rohan Eored: 25pts / comp
Royal Knights: 30pts / comp
Oathsworn Militia: no change
Oathsworn Bowmen: no change
Outrider Eored: 25pts / comp
Rohan Royal Guard: 30pt/ comp
The Sons of Eorl: 30pts / comp
The King’s Guard: Legendary cost: 60pts, +30pts / comp, +25pts for the Royal Standard of Rohan
Erkenbrand’s Riders: Legendary cost: 85pts, +30pts / comp
Theodred’s Knights: Legendary cost: 55pts, +35pts / comp
Grimbold’s Helmingas: Legendary cost: 55pts, +25pts / comp
Elfhelm’s Riders: Legendary cost: 65pts, +30pts / comp
Theoden, King of Rohan: 110pts
Meriadoc, Esquire of Rohan: 35pts
Eomer, marshal of the Riddermark: 125pts
Eowyn, Shield-maiden of Rohan: 60pts
Eorl the Young: no change
Erkenbrand, Captain of the Westfold: 65pts
Theodred, Prince of Rohan: 115pts
Deorwine, Captain of the Royal Guard: 45pts

The Elven Kingdoms
Galadhrim Regiment: 30pts / comp
Galadhrim Archer Regiment: 35pts / comp
Wood Elf Warband: 25pts / comp, may take longbows for +5pts / comp, or glaives for free
High Elf Regiment: 35pts / comp - may be taken in 1-6 companies
High Elf Archer Regiment: 40pts / comp
Mirkwood Sentinels: 35pts / comp
Galadhrim Kinght Regiment: 30pts / comp
High Elf Knight Regiment: 40pts / comp
Guards of the Galadhrim Court: 35pts / comp
Rivendell Guard: Legendary cost: 85pts, + 40pts/comp
Gildor’s Household: Legendary cost: 90pts, +30pts / comp
Glorfindel, Lord of the West: 185pts
Haldir’s Elves: +35pts / comp
Guardians of Caras Galadhon: Legendary cost: 90pts, +35pts/comp
Galadriel, Lady of Lothlorien: no change
Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlorien: 185pts
Celeborn, Lord of Lothlorien: 165pts
Thranduil, King of Mirkwood: no change
Elrond, Master or Rivendell: 185pts
Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood: 160pts
Cirdan of the Havens: 65pts
Gil-galad, High King of the Elves: 225pts
Arwen Evenstar: 75pts
Elladan: no change
Elrohir: no change
Haldir, Guardian of Lorien: no change

The Dwarf Holds
Dwarf Warrior Kinband: no change
Dwarf Archer Kinband: no change
Dwarf Ranger Kinband: 30pts/comp
Khazad Guard Kinband: no change
Iron Guard Kinband: 45pt/comp
Vault Warden Kinband: 50pts / comp
Dwarf Ballista: 55pts / comp
Moria Expeditionaries: no change
Iron Guard Ancients: 50pts/ comp
Ered Luin Rangers: 40pts / comp may exchange two-handed weapons for bows for free
King’s Champion: no change
Murin’s Guard: Legendary cost: 85pts
Drar’s Hunters: Legendary cost: 65pts
Durin’s Guard: Legendary cost: 130pts
Floi Stonehand, Loremaster of Moria: no change
Balin, Lord of Moria: 130pts
Dain Ironfoot, King Under the Mountain: no change
Gimli, son of Gloin: no change

The Forgotten Kingdoms
Hobbit Militia: no change
Hobbit Archer Militia: no change
Ent: 100pts
Great Eagle: 105pts
Treebeard: 175pts
The Three Hunters: no change
Quickbeam: 115pts
Beachbone: 115pts
Tom Bombadil: no change
Gwaihir: 155pts
The Fellowship of the Ring: 450pts
The White Council: 450pts
Wardens of the Carrock: Legendary cost: 50pts, +30pts / comp - may be taken in 1-6 companies
Council of Wizardry: no change
Woses Warband: Legendary cost: 60pts, 20 pts / comp - may be taken in 1-9 companies
Saruman the White: no change
Gandalf the Grey: to upgrade to Gandalf the White, it costs +25pts
Radagast the Brown: 175pts
Gandalf in Cart: 225pts

Mordor
Mordor Orc Warband: no change
Morannon Orc Warband: 25pts /comp
Orc Tracker Warband: 25pts / comp
Warg Rider Warband: no change
Mordor Uruk-hai Warband: 20pts / comp, may take two-handed weapons, shields, increasing the defence to 4(6) or bows for +5pts / comp
Morgul Stalker Warband 30pts / comp
Black Numenorean Regiment: 30pts / comp, may be taken in 1-6 companies
Morgul Knight Regiment: may be taken in 1-6 companies
Mordor Troll: 85pts
Mordor Troll Drummer: 95pts
Mordor Troll Chieftain: 145pts
Great Beast of Gorgoroth: 150pts
Black Guard of Barad-dur: no change
War Catapult Battery: 70pts / comp
Siege Bow Battery: 55pts / comp
Mordor Battering Ram: 25pts
Shagrat’s Tower Guard: Legendary cost: 105pts, may take two-handed weapons, shields, increasing defence to 4(6) or bows for +5pts / comp - may be taken in 1-6 companies
Castellan’s of Dol Guldor: 90pts / comp
Gorbag’s Morgul Rats: Legendary cost: 95pts, may be taken in 1-6 companies
Shelob: 165pts
Grishnakh’s Trackers: Legendary cost: 65pts, 25pts / comp, may be taken in 1-4 companies
The Necromancer of Dol Guldor: 235pts
The Nine are Abroad: 400pts
Twilight Ringwraiths: 80pts / comp
Winged Nazgûl: 150pts, extra cost see Ringwraith below
Ringwraith: extra costs: the Witch-king of Angmar: 60pts, Khamûl the Easterling: 75pts, the Dark Marshal: 40pts, the Shadow Lord: 20pts, the Tainted: 30pts, the Undying: 15pts, the Knight of Umbar: 65pts, the Betrayer: 70pts, the Dwimmerlaik: 55pts
The Mouth of Sauron: 90pts
Gothmog, Castellan of Minas Morgul: 175pts
Kardûsh the Firecaller: 85pts
Guritz, Morgul Lieiutenant: 125pts
Sauron, the Dark Lord of Mordor: 275pts
Gollum: 25pts

The Fortress of Isengard
Uruk-hai Phalanx: no change
Uruk-hai Warband: to exchange shields for crossbows, it costs an additional +5pts / comp
Uruk-hai Scout Warband: 25pts / comp
Isengard Orc Warband: no change
Uruk-hai Sappers: 35pts
Feral Uruk-hai Warband: no change
Warg Rider Warband: may be taken in 1-9 companies
Dunleding Huscurls: no change
Wild Men of Dunland: no change
Uruk-hai Beserker Warband: 75pts
Sharkey’s Ruffians: 15pts / comp
Isengard Troll: 85pts
Isengard Troll Captain: 125pts
Isengard Battering Ram: 35pts
Dunleding Horsemen: may take shields, increasing defence to 4(5) or two-handed weapons for +5pts / comp
Isengard Assault Ballista: 65pts / comp
Ugluk’s Raiders: Legendary cost: 70pts
Vrasku’s Talons: Legendary cost: 70pts, +40pts / comp
Sharku’s Hunters: Legendary cost: 65pts
Mauhur’s Marauders: Legendary cost: 65pts
Thrydan Wolfsbane: 60pts
Saruman the White Hand: 210pts
Lurtz: no change
Grima Wormtongue: 35pts

The Misty Mountains
Moria Goblin Warband: no change
Warg Pack: no change
Giant Spider Brood: no change
Moria Prowler Warband: 25pts / comp, may exchange two-handed weapons for shields, increasing defence to 3(5) or bows. Has shoot value 3+
Cloud of Bats: 25pts / comp
Spider Queen: 100pts
Cave Troll: 70pts
Dweller in the Dark: 85pts
Stone Giant: no change
Spider Broodling Swarm: 30pts / comp
Gundabad Blackshields: 30pts / comp, may take pikes for +5pts / comp
Warg Marauder Warband: 40pts / comp
Cave Drake: 115pts
Dragon of Ancient Times: no change
The Balrog of Morgoth: 435pts
The Watcher in the Water: 335pts
Durburz, Goblin King of Moria: 135pts
Druzhag the Beastcaller: 165pts
Groblug, King of the Deep: 135pts
Ashrak the Spiderkin: 125pts

The Fallen Realms
Haradrim Warband: 20pts / comp
Haradrim Raiders: 20pts / comp
Serpent Guard Warband: 25pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 4(6), for +5pts / comp
Serpent Rider Warband: 25ps / comp, mat take shields, increasing defence to 4(5) or bows for +5pts / comp
Corsair Raiding Party: 15pts / comp
Khandish Mercenary Warband: no change
Khandish Mercenary Raiders: no change
Easterling Cohort: no change
Easterling Archer Cohort: 30pts / comp
Easterling Kataphrakt Cohort: 30pts / comp
Watcher Warband: 30pts / comp
Half Troll Warband: 90pts / comp
Mahud Warband: 25pts / comp
Mahud Raider Warband: 20pts / comp, may take lances or blowpipes for +5pts / comp (may take both lances AND blowpipes for +10pts / comp if desired)
Corsair Arbalesters: 35pts / comp
Black Numenorean Regiment: 30pts / comp, may be taken in 1-6 companies
Morgul Knight Regiment: may be taken in 1-6 companies
Khandish Charioteer: 70pts, for Khandish King +40pts
War Mumak of Harad: 275pts
Abrakhan Guard: Legendary cost: 85pts, +25pts / comp
Suladan the Serpent Lord: 145pts
Dalamy, Fleet Master of Umbar: 95pts
Amdur, Lord of Blades: no change:
Queen Beruthiel: no change

Angmar
Ghostly Legion: 35pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 5(7), or pikes for +5pts / comp
Ghostly Riders: 35pts / comp may take shields, increasing defence to 5(6) for +5pts / comp
Spectral Host: 35pts / comp
Carn Dum Warband: may exchange shields for two-handed weapons for free
Angmar Orc Warband: no change
Court of Fallen Kings: 80pts
Shade: 90pts
Werewolf Pack: 65pts
Buhrdûr: 145pts
Gulavhar, the Terror of Arnor: 190pts
Golfimbul: 60pts

Thankyou for reading this very 'short' post and please feel free to comment. :)
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Aug 09, 2011 5:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
It seems like it would work, but personally I don't like it; it's just too complex. For me, house-rules should be as simple and short as possible.
Author:  Erunion [ Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I would like to see GW tweak many of the profiles for WotR, but like General Elessar, I think this would be too difficult to get opponents to agree to unless it was a very close group of friends.
Author:  Xelee [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I've found people are pretty willing to accept house-rules but that the degree they are willing to do so is inversely proportional to their complexity/length. So I find no real resistance to the idea in principle (I see more of that on forums!) but the key thing is that those using them can grasp what they contain and and judge whether they like it. So people who know me well are willing to trust that I know what I am doing a bit more and find out as they go along but otherwise the houserules need to be explainable in a couple of sentences. But whoever your audience is, you need to think about that when designing things.

I have two sets that get used locally:
1. re-works heavy inf w shield, xbows, Nazguls, command options and Epic Strike + gives Elves and Rohan a Boost. It fits on one A4 page and means that the points in the main book can still be used.
2. The other actually just is a list of heroes/monsters that are 'restricted' (basically heroes with ES or Spell-casting or EHtK monsters), if it is restricted only one may be taken per 1000pts. The only other rules change is Will of Iron on a 3+. So that is simpler still.

I used the former with guys I know quite well and the latter is how we balance things for events etc.
Author:  Hellfury [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I like 'em.

Not sure if my local group would consider using them, but I doubt it would be difficult. Not too many power gamers that would refuse just because a certain unit might be more expensive. We all know that Ringwraiths are not created equal for example.

We do not engage in any heavy competitive games so I am sure showing them the list and asking them if they might consider their use occasionally just to see if it brings better balance to the game shouldnt be too much of a hassle.

Slowly ingratiating new points might even prove popular if the reception is well regarded.

I know these have been worked on for awhile now. Nice job, Xelee.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Thanks for all the replies everyone, whether you like them, or think houserules are better.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
EDITED to include, unofficial house profiles for new releases, changes in opinion on certain units, and adding in unchanged units for completeness and new wargear options for some units eg Warriotrs of the Dead may take shields or pikes.
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Its a good list and I've done a fair bit of play testing. I use house rules aswell since I can't seem to make point values harmonious with the official rules.

I went the other way with Epic Strike Hero's making them cheaper inline with Faramir to better combat Magic users.

Monsters are tough but this is how I rated them from worst to best (removing house ruled monsters)

Shade 50
Cave Troll 60
Khandish Charioteer 70
Mordor Troll 85
Mordor Troll Drummer 90
Isengard Troll 95
Spider Queen 95
Ent 100
Khandish King 100
Cave Drake 105
Great Eagle 110
Quickbeam 115
Beechbone 115
Kings Champion 120
Isengard Troll Captain 125
Shelob 130
Mordor Troll Captain 135
Buhrdur 140
Gwaihir 150
Glorfindel 175
Treebeard 175
Mumak 250
Stone Giant 250
Dragon 400
Dragon w/ Magic 500

That's about it. Nice work.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Thank you, Some of yours are the same or similar to what I put. I would say Shades are better than that, remember the Spirit Battlehost too, though maybe too harsh on them. You missed out the Battering Rams though. Which monsters have you play-tested?

I increased the cost of some of the Magicians too, as well as the ES heroes.

What do you think about the extra Wargear options, do they help those units do you think? What about Elves/Angmar/Rohan in general. Are Mordor/Gondor/MM suffieciently dealt with. Ringwraiths?

I have little time for playtesting, most of these pts are based solely upon how well they do at their official pts values.
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Just a note on costing monsters, they usually go down easily so their points value is really a gamble so you can't cost them like they are going to last more than 3 turns. Here is the monster's I've play tested at the modified costs.

The Shade went down really fast to Epic Shot one time and Radagast would kill it too easily since its only 1 Resilience.
The Chariot went down fast too (to archer fire) and I was debating whether its on par with a Cave Troll. Its a pretty close argument so I brought it down from 80 to 70.
Mordor Troll was squishy too but it went down to 4c of Harad Archers (understandable... it was a risk I took). I think its right though since left unattended can be very dangerous. Like anything you need to eliminate the greatest threats first.
Isengard Troll was much tougher to kill. The extra Defense made alot of difference since he was targeting Strength 3 troops. 8-12 dice trying to roll 6's and 4's... very slim chance.
Khandish King not much difference than the Chariot aside it can ATD to get out of harms way. Once in combat I'd still prefer the Isengard Troll.
Great Eagle is quite powerful and two of them amazing. They can get behind quite easily and there mere presence will make an aggressive player sit back. They do go down easy but their utility bumps up their value.
King's Champion similiar to an Isengard Troll Captain but missing the throwing attack and 1 strength less. The Inspiring Leader is nice but I wouldn't say that would put him over said Troll.
Mordor Captain is quite good but I don't find the +1 Strength a big enough deal to overspend vs. the Isengard Captain. I have him 10 points over if I find I need his other abilities.

Gwaihir is very good aswell. Extra points in all area's but still HTK and dies to same to Strength 3 troops as the Great Eagle's. Paying more for the utility Gwaihir offers.
Glorfindel is a FellBeast killer. Very much the same as an Eagle but the Spell casting ability marks death for Spirit Monsters so now an aggressive player has to add that to their worries.
Mumak is about right. They get slaughtered by siege and Wilderness casters but at 250 points that's the risk you take. I would actually hold these in reserve till the siege is taken out and more open space and then throw them in there.
Dragon is awesome and I'd rather take him over the Balrog. I would price the Balrog on par with a Dragon without magic due to the vulnerability to Command Casters/Gandalf plus the Dragon flies, shoots fireballs, and better Defense. Flying is underrated.
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I took the Battering Ram right out and made it a command option for Orcs and Uruk's only. I've never seen them played but they seem useless.
Wargear wise, if the models are WYSIWYG then they're fine. I costed Longbows 10 points and defense values boosted by shields 10 points if its (6) or more.

Citadel Guards: 30pts / comp, may take longbows or shields, increasing defence to 5(7), for +5pts / comp
Guards of the Fountain Court: 30pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 6(8) for +5pts / comp
Serpent Guard Warband: 25pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 4(6), for +5pts / comp
- You could consider them as Pikes or 2-H Weapons instead of shields.

Warriors of the Dead: 35pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 5(7), or pikes for +5pts / comp
Riders of the Dead: 35pts / comp may take shields, increasing defence to 5(6) for +5pts / comp
Ghostly Legion: 35pts / comp, may take shields, increasing defence to 5(7), or pikes for +5pts / comp
Ghostly Riders: 35pts / comp may take shields, increasing defence to 5(6) for +5pts / comp
- I'm a little reluctant to add wargear to ethereal creatures.

Wood Elf Warband: 25pts / comp, may take longbows for +5pts / comp, or glaives for free
- Since I change the striking order for glaives I made them 5 points but I can see why they are free.

Ered Luin Rangers: 40pts / comp may exchange two-handed weapons for bows for free
Mordor Uruk-hai Warband: 20pts / comp, may take two-handed weapons, shields, increasing the defence to 4(6) or bows for +5pts / comp
Uruk-hai Warband: to exchange shields for crossbows, it costs an additional +5pts / comp
Serpent Rider Warband: 25ps / comp, mat take shields, increasing defence to 4(5) or bows for +5pts / comp
- Sound

Dunleding Horsemen: may take shields, increasing defence to 4(5) or two-handed weapons for +5pts / comp
- 2H's is a little unbelievable

Moria Prowler Warband: 25pts / comp, may exchange two-handed weapons for shields, increasing defence to 3(5) or bows. Has shoot value 3+
- I suppose if you want another version of Goblins its fine but I just see them as the 2-H version for common goblins.

Gundabad Blackshields: 30pts / comp, may take pikes for +5pts / comp
- I can't see pikes/shields honestly. They so little to withstand a Cavalry charge.

Mahud Raider Warband: 20pts / comp, may take lances or blowpipes for +5pts / comp (may take both lances AND blowpipes for +10pts / comp if desired)
- Blowpipes should be free. 4 strength 1 hits at 12" and cannot charge after shooting, you should get 5 points back. Iron lances were used by Camel Riders so sounds good.

Carn Dum Warband: may exchange shields for two-handed weapons for free
- sure. I think Angmar does need something.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Mon Mar 12, 2012 12:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Thank you Slythar. One point with the Shade, is unlike the other monsters it sould never and up in line of sight of enemy archers, but it probably should be less. I will probably reduce the majorty of Monsters down a little. Thanks for the input. I will return to Monsters when possible.

I don't think shilds should be 10pts, it doesn't feel right. I'd ditch all shields, since the extra defence works only to the front and can get shattered, I don't rate it as highly as base defence (the most important characteristic hands down), plus +2 defence only increases D6 roll by 1.

Guards of the Fountain Court have shields in SBG, wanted to give them the same options, especially if people converted the models to have shields for SBG. Citadel Guards and Serpent Guards didn't, but figured they need an option. There are already pikemen in both Gondor and Fallen Realms, and unlike 2-handers, they tend to be rarer. Giving Serpent Guards shields was a way to overcome the low defence despite the fact they're wearing heavy armour, Citadel Guards was meant to be the Gondor equilvant of an Uruk-hai Warband. Neither Citadel nor Serpent Guards need them, but I don't know...

Warriors of the Dead also have sheld (and spear) options in SBG, so wanted their WotR equilavents to have the same options (pikes being the spears). It either that and/or I give them all base defence 7.

Wood Elves, yes, I without reworking Glaives there's no point unless they're free.

The reason I gave the Dunleding Horsemen the option for two-handed weapons is because the WotR book has speciak rules for Cavalry with two-handed weapons (they don't get the penalty that infantry do, they're lance that work when not charging), but thought it odd they had the rule but no actual troops had the option. Considering the Dunl;and Horsemen's lack of official options (and models) and their nature, they seemedthe natural candidate to benefit from the rule.

Prowlers have options for shields and bows in SBG, so again, didn't want to remove that option. They need in some way to be superior. They should also auto-come with throwing weapons too,, I'll add that when I alter Monsters.

With Blackshields, I don't entirely understand ou, but I think you mean they are too small (Goblins or spears?), I will remove that option.

I was about to say that the Mahud models aren't all armed with blowpipes, but I remembered that at least 1 of the 2 variants has a 'stored' blowpipe, so I might as well do that. I think the Mahud should have poisoned weapons too.

Thanks for all.
Author:  Constantine [ Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I hope I don't violate forum etiquette by reviving such an old thread (I've done it in the past anyhow :P ).

Quote:
The Elven Kingdoms
Galadhrim Regiment: 30pts / comp
Galadhrim Archer Regiment: 35pts / comp
Wood Elf Warband: 25pts / comp, may take longbows for +5pts / comp, or glaives for free
High Elf Regiment: 35pts / comp - may be taken in 1-6 companies
High Elf Archer Regiment: 40pts / comp
Mirkwood Sentinels: 35pts / comp
Galadhrim Kinght Regiment: 30pts / comp
High Elf Knight Regiment: 40pts / comp
Guards of the Galadhrim Court: 35pts / comp
Rivendell Guard: Legendary cost: 85pts, + 40pts/comp
Gildor’s Household: Legendary cost: 90pts, +30pts / comp
Glorfindel, Lord of the West: 185pts
Haldir’s Elves: +35pts / comp
Guardians of Caras Galadhon: Legendary cost: 90pts, +35pts/comp
Galadriel, Lady of Lothlorien: no change
Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlorien: 185pts
Celeborn, Lord of Lothlorien: 165pts
Thranduil, King of Mirkwood: no change
Elrond, Master or Rivendell: 185pts
Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood: 160pts
Cirdan of the Havens: 65pts
Gil-galad, High King of the Elves: 225pts
Arwen Evenstar: 75pts
Elladan: no change
Elrohir: no change
Haldir, Guardian of Lorien: no change


This would vastly increase the quantity of Elven troops. Ergo, the Elven armies will lose their character and feel, namely few elite warriors fighting against more numerous armies.
I think it's more appropriate to increase their combat effectiveness, while perhaps slightly reducing their cost. Therefore, the Elves will still be outnumbered yet the will have the necessary quality to compete on equal terms.
Author:  Telchar [ Sat Dec 29, 2012 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
Constantine wrote:
I hope I don't violate forum etiquette by reviving such an old thread (I've done it in the past anyhow :P ).

Quote:
The Elven Kingdoms
Galadhrim Regiment: 30pts / comp
Galadhrim Archer Regiment: 35pts / comp
Wood Elf Warband: 25pts / comp, may take longbows for +5pts / comp, or glaives for free
High Elf Regiment: 35pts / comp - may be taken in 1-6 companies
High Elf Archer Regiment: 40pts / comp
Mirkwood Sentinels: 35pts / comp
Galadhrim Kinght Regiment: 30pts / comp
High Elf Knight Regiment: 40pts / comp
Guards of the Galadhrim Court: 35pts / comp
Rivendell Guard: Legendary cost: 85pts, + 40pts/comp
Gildor’s Household: Legendary cost: 90pts, +30pts / comp
Glorfindel, Lord of the West: 185pts
Haldir’s Elves: +35pts / comp
Guardians of Caras Galadhon: Legendary cost: 90pts, +35pts/comp
Galadriel, Lady of Lothlorien: no change
Galadriel, Protectress of Lothlorien: 185pts
Celeborn, Lord of Lothlorien: 165pts
Thranduil, King of Mirkwood: no change
Elrond, Master or Rivendell: 185pts
Legolas, Prince of Mirkwood: 160pts
Cirdan of the Havens: 65pts
Gil-galad, High King of the Elves: 225pts
Arwen Evenstar: 75pts
Elladan: no change
Elrohir: no change
Haldir, Guardian of Lorien: no change


This would vastly increase the quantity of Elven troops. Ergo, the Elven armies will lose their character and feel, namely few elite warriors fighting against more numerous armies.
I think it's more appropriate to increase their combat effectiveness, while perhaps slightly reducing their cost. Therefore, the Elves will still be outnumbered yet the will have the necessary quality to compete on equal terms.


I agree, but this is a recosting project, not a houserules project.
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
If you play a captains only game I get their drift but fight and courage just isn't valuable enough. I've been toying with doubling the Battle Skill modifier and retooling courage to work on a D6. WoTR is a labour of love. :oops:
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
So, Constantine the Great WotR Thread Reviver strikes again!

As Telchar says, This thread is for points values only, no houserules, something more readily accepted by people, and the Elves can still be small armies if you take more heroes, maybe ally in an eagle or two.

@slythar, if you say so :roll:
Author:  Slythar [ Sun Dec 30, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I find "if you say so" offensive and impolite. Don't patronize me Gothmog.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative WOTR Points Values
I didn't mean it that way, sorry. :oops:

What I meant was that I didn't entirely understand what you said, particularly the "captain's only" bit but I wanted to say so in a way that implied I did not understand without actually saying that. As it happens, I think I understand you know anyway, but if you like I can edit that comment.
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