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Angmar 1000pt army
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=20089		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Angmar 1000pt army
I an a noob when it comes to WOTR and I was just musing on an army, and I know Angmar isnt all that popular but let me know what you think.

Epics
The Tainted
Khamul
Gothmog

Commons
3c Ghostly Riders
2 x 6c Carn Dum Warband
5c Angmar Orc Warband

1000pts, 20 companies, 4 formations, 6 might, Magic Levels 6

Dont really like the orcs, but not sure what I would swap the out for. Any thoughts?
Author:  spuds4ever [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
I'd probably split the Carn-dum warbands into 3x4 formations. I don't think khamul is strictly necessary (or thematic) so I might drop him in favour of buhrdur.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Right thanks for the reply. Have come up with something a little different:
Epics
The Dimmerlaik
Legendary
Burdhur
Commons
3 x 4c Carn Dum Warband
1 X 5c Carn Dum Warband

Allies
Epics
Druzhag
Commons
4c Giant Spiders

1000pts, 21 companies, 7 formations, 7 might, and a lonely ringwraith
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
spuds4ever wrote:
I'd probably split the Carn-dum warbands into 3x4 formations.


I agree.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Gidday Noddwyr,

To be honest, I liked your initial setup better: Multiple Wraiths, Carn Dum in units larger than 4, and Orcs rather than Spiders.

You definitely want Buhrdur, no question. However, and I run Carn Dum as my primary army, def 4(6) seems to need to be in larger units than the 3-4 I am happy to run my MT warrs as. The first reason is that many basic troops are str 4, so kill twice as many of them as they would kill eg MT Warriors, Morranans etc bow at shortrange also nets twice the kills vs these troops. The second reason is that these troops only pay for themselves when charging, and Ringwraiths (or any mastery 2 Darkness caster) are key here. Wings of Terror and Pall of Night are the most reliable methods to ensure you get those charges.

Orcs could be there to add variety. I may be a lone voice, but I rate 20pt bow highly as an efficient troop type (given they can also fight in melee) and 2HW Orcs can be deadly effective smashed in as a column, through carefully created gaps in your line. I don't run Orcs myself, but they are on my 'to get' list. It is a huge shame that Wargames Factory are having issues atm and I will likely have to put that off. I find that Mordor Siege bows (I've actually converted some with Carn Dum Crew) fit very well with the list as well.

The Tainted and Dwimmerlaik are both excellent Wraiths. The Tainted in particular has good synergy with Berserk chargers. He is a backup method (expect spells will fail at least once or twice every game) of preventing charges and can give each Carn Dum coy +4 dice in the melee. The Mouth of Sauron (to represent a Black Numenorian Lieutenant) is another possible option, but it gets trickier since he takes up allied points. Another good option is to use Thrydan's statline to represent 'the King of Carn Dum' or even the King of Rhuadar. His 'inspiring leader' makes a lot of sense here. I feel that his hatred of Rohan also maps perfectly onto the hatred the inhabitants of Carn Dum would have felt for the mounted raiders from Rhohavian. :)

Hope that helps.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Cheers Xelee, that is super helpful. I am still playing with ideas for the list and will try to post another list once i have got a firmer idea of what i want.

Do you recommend Ghostly Riders? They seem to be very good if you can actually get them into combat, the perfect flankers, but thats just on paper. How do they play?
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
They are on my 'to try' list. After the Orcs. My Angmar (Carn Dum) started out as a cobbled together mix of cheap second-hand heroes, converted artillery (from Zvezdka kits) and a nice deal on heaps of plastic Vikings from GB, so I didn't really get a full mix of units in there.

I think that units of 24" double-moving cavalry, which can move through both your own and enemy troops, and ignore armour, would be useful. They are probably not as 'efficient' as the Carn Dum warband, in that Cav can get 'ambushed' and quickly killed by a focused opponent. On the other-hand, they are incredibly flexible, since they have a big move and aren't likely to get blocked in like other units. There is always a use for that kind of flexibility and your opponent will always have to take it into account.

And the idea of them is just cool :) It's funny you should mention them, since I was just looking at their unit entry again today. Of all the ghostly units, they are the one I like the most. I know I am not alone in that opinion either.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jan 25, 2011 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
yeah they seem to be interesting to play, I havent got any yet but am considering them. They do cost alot (both in points and money) though and that is sorta of putting me off. Right how about:

Epics
The Tainted
Legendary
Burdhur
Commons
3 x 5c Carn Dum Warband
2c Angmar Orcs w/ bows

Allies
Epics
Betrayer
Thyrdan
Commons
3c haradrim Raiders

990 points, 6 formations, 20 companies, 7 might
Author:  Slythar [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
I'm thinking of building an Angmar army aswell. I was planning on a block of 2-H Orcs up the middle 3 wide, 3 deep with a taskmaster and Tyrdan to share his courage to a formation on each side of Carn Dum Warband. Charge in with the Carn Dum warband and support the ends with those orcs (mob rule). Maybe get some Ghosts (so expensive) in behind or the Tainted on Fellbeast. Thats my plan but I haven't built it yet. I'd skip bows altogether honestly.
Author:  Xelee [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Noddwyr, the core looks good but I am not so sure about the 'extras'.

What I ended up doing was settling on always taking two Wraiths, Buhrdur, and at least 14-16 total coy of Carn Dum warband. I know that sometimes leaves one formation at four strong, but that seems to be ok for a reserve. Then I just tend to play around with that last 145-205pts. I always keep Buhrdur because he breaks up the monotony of the warbands, and I also think you need multiple Wraiths. So you could do some experimenting yourself about what to fit into that last slot.
Author:  Slythar [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Here's what I've been imagining.

Epics
The Tainted on Fell Beast
Thrydan (Ally)

Commons
2 x 6c Carn Dum Warband
1 x 9c Angmar Orcs w/ 2-H, Banner Bearer, Taskmaster

Rare
2 x 1c Siege Bow (Ally)

1000 points, 5 formations, 24 companies, 3 might
Author:  Xelee [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Crazy though it may seem (and army pics nonwithstanding) - consensus seems to be that you have to take the fellbeast versions of Wraiths as allies only. So that cannot be your army commander.

I'd also suggest that while wraiths on wings look very cool, they aren't as useful as the foot versions and are a bit more vulnerable. On the other hand, they do look very cool.
Author:  HRM [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 10:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Yeah,I'm fairly certain that the Royal Mordor Air Force has to be taken as an ally. They should have just offered the Fellbests as an upgrade.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Hmm Intersting points. Thanks everyone. What about this?

Epics
The Tainted
Legendary
Burdhur
Commons
3 x 5c Carn Dum Warband
6c Angmar Orcs w/ 2h weapons

Allies
Epics
Betrayer
Thyrdan

995 points, 5 formations, 21 companies, 7 might

Was also thinking of swappping the orcs for a werewolf pacl for the sake of coolness but not sure. THoughts?
Author:  Slythar [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
That's brutal. It does say under Epic Hero description for Wraiths you may include up to 9 Nazgul and then again under "There are Nine" You may field each as a Ringwraith or a Winged Nazgul. I would say that's an upgrade since its in the Epic Hero's description. Plus the pictures... who made that ruling? Even in SBG it lets you choose your mount and thats my second go to if the rules are unclear. Thats just brutal.

Anyways... I'll use that for my group.
Author:  HRM [ Wed Jan 26, 2011 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
If he's on a Fellbeast he's a Legendary, not an Epic, and thus cannot be the Leader.

I know it LOOKS otherwise, but I think even GW themselves confirmed this.
Author:  General Elessar [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
HRM wrote:
If he's on a Fellbeast he's a Legendary, not an Epic, and thus cannot be the Leader.

I know it LOOKS otherwise, but I think even GW themselves confirmed this.


On page 85 it says that both Epic Heroes and Legendary Formations can be leaders.
Author:  Xelee [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Quote:
On page 85 it says that both Epic Heroes and Legendary Formations can be leaders.

Yep, but that isn't the problem in this case. Legendaries can definitely be leaders... but not allied ones. 'Shadow of the Nazgul' only mentions Epics. HRM is pointing out that that since he is a legendary, he has to be allied.

I should be clear at this stage though, it is definitely a stupid restriction. Sure, they didn't have Fell-Beasts for most of the period the Angmar list covers but they would have had for the 'other battles' of the WOTR. I'd have no problem with it, and I'm not the only one I've seen state so. It makes the Nazgul less useful anyway!
Author:  HRM [ Thu Jan 27, 2011 10:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
Xelee wrote:
Quote:
I should be clear at this stage though, it is definitely a stupid restriction. Sure, they didn't have Fell-Beasts for most of the period the Angmar list covers but they would have had for the 'other battles' of the WOTR. I'd have no problem with it, and I'm not the only one I've seen state so. It makes the Nazgul less useful anyway!


Couldn't agree more. We've condsidered adopting this as our first "house rule" ourselves, ESPECIALLY with respect to the WK in Angmar armies.
Author:  General Elessar [ Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1000pt army
My bad, I didn't read the other everyone else had said thoroughly enough.
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