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WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=19230		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Hador [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
Recently I've been thinking that the WotR game might be suitable for First Age games ...but I thought I might scale the whole thing down so that it uses 10mm miniatures instead of the usual 25mm miniatures - and changing all measurements from inches to centimetres (i.e. what would have previously been 6" would now be 6cm).

I understand that removing casualties might be a bit of a problem with such small miniatures (as I'll probably be gluing the miniatures to their bases), but I figure that placing a d8 (or some other kind of counter) next to the rearmost formation would probably suffice.

So with that in mind, I thought I'd post what I have got planned for a starter (1000pt) 'evil' army based around the theme of 'Gothmog - lord of balrogs' (note that I have put the WotR profile I will be using for each company in brackets next each of my choices, and also note that this is not the same Gothmog as the third age Gothmog):

Boldog (goblin king)
2 x Werewolves of Sauron (warg pack)
Gothmog - lord of balrogs (balrog)
Gothmog's troll guard (cave troll)
Gothmog's troll guard (cave troll)
3 x Orcs of Angband - with banner & drum (Mordor orcs)
3 x Orcs of Angband - with banner & drum (Mordor orcs)
2 x Orcs of Angband - with bows (Mordor orcs)

Total = 990 points

The army itself is based around the Moria list (with less than 25% in Mordor allies), and I would have liked to use the balrog as the leader - but unfortunately the balrog is only a rare monster. If anyone has any better ideas, then it would be cool to hear about them (though I would prefer to stick to the official rules, rather than choosing my army from an unoficial First Age supplement that someone might have put together).

Anyway, if folks are interested I'll try and post some pictures as I get these things painted.
Author:  senoja [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:31 pm ]
Post subject: 
seeing as this is purely a house rules game why not just make rules for gothmog himself as apposed to using just durins bane and 1000 pts would make no reason for u to scale it down to 10mm eithire yourd really b talking 15/20.000 pts for some of the first age battles itd b exactly like comparing epic to 40k on a model for model basis i doubt wotr rules set would really work at that level
Author:  Hador [ Tue Aug 10, 2010 3:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well you could easily argue that the tWotR is not really suitable for the battles that take place in the tLotR ...as they too run into thousands of troops, so I'm not too concerned with that ;)

But that aside, the above is just a 'starter' army (just to get the ball rolling so to speak) ...and the reasons for scaling down are manifold (at least for me - though I agree that most folks would probably prefer to stick with the regular size minis). For example, a 10mm game requires less space to play (which is a bit of an issue for me), the above army will only cost me around £25 in 10mm metal figures (and therefore the possibility of me amassing a huge army suddenly becomes economically viable), painting one base/stand (of 8 minis) will take me about the same time as painting 1 regular size miniature (again, making my plan of amassing a huge 'painted' army more realistic), transporting (and storing) a whole 5000pt army should be possible in one small case, etc.

I know some of the above 'reasons' are probably not that big a deal to most folks, they are just things that are more appealing to me personally - and hence why I'm choosing to go down this route :)

Anyway, I hope that kinda explains some of my (crazy) reasoning :D
Author:  senoja [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:40 am ]
Post subject: 
well unless theres atleast a few other people u know going down the same route it would b totaly piontless really liked collecting epic wen ALL of your mates do 40k however i can imagine as a simple miniatures scale down it would work tho ud only b playing on a 48cm table
Author:  Jamros [ Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:47 am ]
Post subject: 
If you're going to scale down, why not play Warmaster? I'm not trying to sound like a smart alec, I'm genuinely recommending it. Check out the Battle of Five Armies boxed game in GW's Specialist Games section, its a complete game that adapts Warmaster rules into Middle-earth. From there, it is very easy to create your own profiles for additional rules, or if you have a Yahoo account, you can join the Middle-earth Warmaster Yahoo group to download their excellent, if outdated, army lists. I personally have not played War of the Ring, but I have read in a review that it is sort of like a cross between The Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game and Warmaster. Warmaster is very simple; I grasped the basic concept of the rules just by skimming through BoFA rulebook, and played two solo trial games, which I enjoyed, shortly thereafter. Now I have tons of minis to paint in 10mm! If you are interested at all I would love to provide links, just let me know. :)
Author:  Hador [ Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:32 am ]
Post subject: 
Thanks for the input guys, I'll try to expand on some of my reasoning below:

senoja wrote:
well unless theres atleast a few other people u know going down the same route it would b totaly piontless really liked collecting epic wen ALL of your mates do 40k however i can imagine as a simple miniatures scale down it would work tho ud only b playing on a 48cm table


In all honesty, I don't really know anyone that plays at all, so this is largely something I'll be doing as a personal project - though I do hope to get at least two opposing armies done (probably getting 1000 points of each done first, and then move up to 2000, and then 3000, and so on), so at the very least I'll have a 'loaner' army available to anyone who shows an interest.

And please forgive my ignorance here (as I've only quickly read through the rules section of the book as of yet) but do folks really run large (say 4000 to 5000 point per side) battles on 4ft square tables?

I do however understand your concerns (and I thank you for pointing these out), but as I say, this is largely a personal project (as I have lots of time on my hands - but very little spare cash) - plus I really would like to amass a large Tolkien themed 10mm army at the moment (I can't explain it, it is just something I fancy doing :) )

Jamros wrote:
If you're going to scale down, why not play Warmaster?


I might have to look into warmaster (before I glue any of these little guys down to any particular size base), but the whole thing about using WotR (and just replacing the word 'inches' with 'centimetres') is that everything is already done, and done in an 'official' (and hopefully well balanced) manner.

I didn't actually intend to make armies any larger than those WotR is meant for (as there are plenty of skirmishes and minor affrays in the First Age too), it is genuinely just a matter of packing all this stuff up into one miniatures case and having a 3ft board to play on - that is my main reasoning here (well that and the fact I've been toying with the idea of a 10mm First Age army or two for a while now :D ).

But yeah, links would be cool - just so that I can weigh up other options.
Author:  Glabro [ Mon Oct 11, 2010 10:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re:
Hador wrote:

I might have to look into warmaster (before I glue any of these little guys down to any particular size base), but the whole thing about using WotR (and just replacing the word 'inches' with 'centimetres') is that everything is already done, and done in an 'official' (and hopefully well balanced) manner.


Unfortunately not so, at least IMHO. I'd want to revise the army lists and some of the rules before I consider it near balanced. But then it'd be the same as if doing your own Warmaster Middle Earth lists.
Coincidentally, I was thinking of doing 10mm Middle Earth too - but the WOTR idea does have merit.

(Sorry for the thread necromancy - I got confused between the first and the second pages and thought this was on top)
Author:  Floi the loremaster [ Sat Oct 30, 2010 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
Actually Wotr has soemone from teh first age Hurin.So its possible to play some battles.
Author:  hero of gondor [ Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
This is a little bit thread necromancy but I hate it when people say that hurin in the wotr book is the hurin that is the father of turin. That lived in the first age.

The hurin in the wotr book is the watcher of the gates of minas tirith. And the other watchers and he are named wardens of the keys by GW. Don't make the mistake anymore :P
Author:  BlackReaper [ Mon Dec 20, 2010 2:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
i'd love to see how this goes mate,you should make it a WIP,i would join you in this noble cause but i'm in the same boat your in,lots of time and little money(none in my case).best of luck to you
Author:  Morgoth's Dad [ Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WotR in 10mm for First Age battles
If I was going down to 10mil I wouldn't use WoTR at all, maybe use DBA or Fields of Glory, or one of the other rules sets intended for huge scale ancient battles. Part of the fun for me would be converting all the LotR units into a new system. I've considered using FoG before now because at times WotR just seems too simplistic, especially the terrain rules. Maybe even consider Warhammer Ancient Battles (although again I think that's more suited to 28m)
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