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Make Isengard Great Again
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=33338		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SomeGuy [ Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Make Isengard Great Again
How's things guys. just throwing this out there.. new thread - old topic

I think Isengard are an awesome force, just look the look of them but i think a few minor changes could be added to them.. not sure if it would work in the real game but would love to see it so something like the following

1. Lurtz - love this guy, wish he was a tad better so it would be more appealing to take him so i suggest add the following rules to his current Fallen Realms profile
(a) Combatant - Lurtz gains the +1 Defense Bonus from carrying a shield, despite also having a bow
(b)Scout Bow - this is an upgrade to his current wargear - range of 18" , Strength of 3 (add a little kick to it)
(C)True Scout Leader - Any army that includes lurtz allow uruk-hai scouts/marauders to gain the defense bonus from a shield ,despite carrying a bow
(d) Just a tweek - lurtz should have the same move distance as mauhur and Uruk-hai Marauders( upgraded scouts)

*Also i might argue to have his wounds on the profile increased by 1,Don't know really what points value you would put on this but maybe increase it by 10-20, there definitely should be one if he gets the extra wound

2. Mauhur - Add extra special rule - Sword Dance(or something) mauhur can use his dual wielding blades to shield( follows same rules for shielding)

3. Ugluk - tweek his special rule - ugluk can use his special rule on any friendly miniature within 4" of him (assuming you need to use it), and maybe (MAYBE) Ugluk can even use this rule EVEN if he is engaged in combat but only and an allied miniature taking part in the same combat i.e fellow side by side fighter guy or even a support(only his own support)

Finally
Troops - Uruk-hai Scouts - Straight forward just change their wargear option from orc bow to a scout bow(listed above)


If you all haven't guessed, i like scouts and wanna see more of them with lurtz

********************VOTE LURTZ******************************
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Nov 18, 2017 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Lol no responses to a topic with a Trump title. Who would have guessed?

That aside Ill be your huckleberry!

Stop. Making. Isengard. Better. Again.

Lol jk but honestly Mauhur doesnt need shielding. He is good for his cost.

Ugluk could be more interesting. No point to take him.

I agree with the scout army. In competitive events there's no point. x bows are much better. Id like to see Lurtz upgraded. Personally i would be happy with +1 attack and 8 inch movement. In addition maybe Narzug's bow rule?

Idk theres a lot you can do. Strength 3 bow would be nice.

If they upgraded him to around 85 points that would be great. One mid tier hero/troop killer.

As for the scout bow....I want to make their shooting better but its tough to not make it overpowered. Strength three bows is good. Plus if they move 8 they can move and shoot 4. But I think it would be balanced with the lowered range and to hit value.

I wish Games Workshop would make smaller army lists.

I.E.:
Isengard Legion
Scouts of Isengard
Dunland
Author:  SomeGuy [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
ah the title,, ha you may be right there doc

May try out the profile in some house rules games, it would just be nice to see lurtz more often, i don't think the scout bows would be overpowered , they might just br enough of an upgrade for people to consider the scout army more over the same ole same ole, and honestly if they were thing i'd prob take them over the xbows..(although i just spent an hour watchin vrasku and some xbow troops rip a poor rohan army to bits).

Thanks for the reply
Author:  polywags [ Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Yeah, I dunno. I think Isengard is plenty strong. It's true the scouts are pretty meh, and Lurtz, just from a theme perspective, could really use something. I think its blown out of proportion though because how ridiculous the new hobbit heroes are.
The biggest problem with Isengard, I think, is that the models that are great are so much better then the lower tier ones so you never them.
Author:  McGarnacle [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
I think Lurtz should work like Shagrat with a weaker and a stronger, more beefy profile. 3s in all the right places plus a bow rule.
Author:  Men are weak [ Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Yeah - I generally don't think that Isengard needs bumps across the board. They're very good right now.

I agree that Lurtz is a pretty meh hero. He's decent, but there's no real case to take him. He's fairly costed, but I'd like to see a beefier profile for him at a higher points cost.

I disagree about Mauhur though. Mauhur is great already. The 8" movement that he can grant to all scouts is really good. And 3 attacks isn't bad either.

Ugluk is OK - If Lurtz got a bump, I'd probably leave him alone.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
SomeGuy wrote:
ah the title,, ha you may be right there doc

May try out the profile in some house rules games, it would just be nice to see lurtz more often, i don't think the scout bows would be overpowered , they might just br enough of an upgrade for people to consider the scout army more over the same ole same ole, and honestly if they were thing i'd prob take them over the xbows..(although i just spent an hour watchin vrasku and some xbow troops rip a poor rohan army to bits).

Thanks for the reply


The problem is a few things....I have a group I run and I can't just institute house rules. Whenever we've done of a vote in the past some people are very much against them. I have so few people showing up that losing 1 or 2 will slide us to the point of not having a group. If I do it in a fun game just between friends then it just feels like if I enjoy the rules Im wasting time because Ill never be able to use them anyway. You know?

But yeah I'd like to see a scout Isengard. There were orcs encamped with them right in the two towers....but did those orcs run with them or did they show up later? I assumed they were just behind them. But to give them higher movement or not to?

But yeah a scout profile I'd like to see for Uruk Scout:
4/4+ 4 4 1 1 3 8 pts
Upgrade with Mauhur and Lurtz in the army: If your army includes both Lurtz and Mauhur your Scouts may be upgraded to Marauders at the cost of 1 pt. Marauders have movement 8.

Wargear:
Shield- 1pt
Scout bow- 1pt a scout bow has range 18 and strength of 3.

Army Bonus: Some ideas....but I dont want to make it too overpowered. I thought maybe something with free 'at the double's or perhaps more bows but they didnt really have a lot....I also thought maybe +1 to their courage when charging terrifying enemies because they got all riled up by Saruman and charged the fellowship with zero fear. Idk.....


As for Lurtz this is how Id like his profile:

5/3+ 5 6 3 2 5 Might/Will/Fate: 3/1/1/
He would be better at shooting, and he often would be the army leader so courage would help. Their courage in this army would be TRASH. 4 or less for all heroes. I think its fair to add 5 to Lurtz. He just wanted bloodlust anyway.
Wargear:
Shield
Scout bow
As for special rules, not sure. I was trying to think of things that werent op.

I like this one....
If Lurtz wounds with his bow, he may fire an additonal shot up to a maximum of three.

Its not that powerful because you need to hit, and then wound with only a strength three bow. So to max the rule you need a 3/5/3/5/3/5 with most armies. The odds are not there. But it can be a might boosted cool shot type of thing. Hell he got Boromir with 3 shots. Probably used all his might. Lol!

McGarnacle wrote:
I think Lurtz should work like Shagrat with a weaker and a stronger, more beefy profile. 3s in all the right places plus a bow rule.


Without trying to be a jerk, just no.....

Lurtz showed up for all of 10 minutes of battle and got shots on a distracted Boromir, and couldnt keep up with tired Aragorn for more than a minute before being bested.

3's in all the right places is reserved for the top fighters of their respective massive armies. Lurtz didnt do anything to deserve that.

You really want that? You can ally in Shagrat, black guard and Mordor Uruks. They will work with Isengard and work with fury for them.


Men are weak wrote:
Yeah - I generally don't think that Isengard needs bumps across the board. They're very good right now.

I agree that Lurtz is a pretty meh hero. He's decent, but there's no real case to take him. He's fairly costed, but I'd like to see a beefier profile for him at a higher points cost.

I disagree about Mauhur though. Mauhur is great already. The 8" movement that he can grant to all scouts is really good. And 3 attacks isn't bad either.

Ugluk is OK - If Lurtz got a bump, I'd probably leave him alone.


Mauhur is a great profile for his points. Fight/Strength 5 and 3 attacks for a bit less than 65 points wow.....

I'd agree about Lurtz though. But I still see a reason to take him if you do Isengard without Saruman. He adds a bow, three might, and is a decent profile compared to a captain. They are different but both ok. But yeah totally agree still want him better.
Author:  Luizasso [ Sat Jun 16, 2018 6:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Well it is a bit of a necro, but the thread is still pretty high on the first page.

The problem with Isengard is that Berserkers, Ferals and Crossbows are always the best, most competitive choice. Maybe giving an all scout force the Chittering Hordes special rule from the Goblintown Goblins and upgrade their bows to strenght 3 (and therefore costing the same points as an elf bow or crossbow) would make them more competitive, at least when compared to the regular Uruk-hai Warriors.
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Sun Jun 17, 2018 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
If you gave the scouts regular bows rather than orc ones I think the scouts would be alright. Maybe they could use a terrain crossing buff when under the effects of a march they might have a niche. But I think if you just made beserkers def 4 then the whole list would be rebalanced rather nicely.
Author:  Hewhoisnamed [ Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
What kind of update would you give isengard in the new addition? New to the game and I'm not sure what's still relevant.
Author:  General Elessar [ Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Hewhoisnamed wrote:
What kind of update would you give isengard in the new addition? New to the game and I'm not sure what's still relevant.


Ask a more specific question, and I'll try to give a better and more direct answer. :)

Isengard are good in the new edition. Saruman and Lurtz are both better. The army Special Rule is really nice. Berserkers and particularly Ferals have been nerfed slightly. Scouts have finally got a new bow (Strength 3, 18" range).


My Uruk-hai Scout army has currently won four out of five games in the Middle-Earth SBG era. :)
Author:  Hewhoisnamed [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
What armies/strategies do you think isengard excels/is weak against?

What is Isengards predominant strategy? It seems like the Uruk hai are just good infantry just not sure what makes the army tick.
Author:  General Elessar [ Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Make Isengard Great Again
Hewhoisnamed wrote:
What armies/strategies do you think isengard excels/is weak against?

What is Isengards predominant strategy? It seems like the Uruk hai are just good infantry just not sure what makes the army tick.


I think that both those questions depend a lot on what sort of Isengard army you're fielding. Broadly speaking, the two main types for Isengard are a Warrior army and a Scout army, and thematically those two lend themselves to different additions. For example, the former might have Saruman, crossbows, berserkers, or a troll, while the latter may have Warg Riders and several cheap-ish 3 Might heroes. That said, many players do mix those two thematic types, either for competitive or just preferential reasons.

Since the basic Uruk is Fight 4, you'll obviously have an advantage against Fight 3 (and lower) armies. The standard Strength 4 is also good, especially against Defence 6.
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