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| Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=31318 |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
as the title says, I'd like to read your opinions and experience on this matter. When looking at the price, I see that a Ballista is just a little over the cost of 6 bowmen. That means that, by choosing archery I'd have 4 more units into play. But a Ballista, with its range has potential to knock Down a large group of enemies: against cavalry (one of dwarves weaknesses) that seems invaluable, way better than the Gondorian ballista. Rohan, for example, cannot play hit-n-run when a Ballista is around. Plus, they should be relative safe from counter bowfire, given its range. On the other hand, now the forces may end up very close to each other, which may prevent the Ballista from making its points back. What are your thoughts? |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sun Jul 19, 2015 6:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I just finished a match where chief hugh used a dwarf ballista on me. They are worth it if you can make the shots. They are terrific for shooting big monsters and breaking up formations. I will post a battle report later and you can judge for yourself of their usefulness. |
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| Author: | Rozinante [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
If you can place it high enough, it could continue to perform after battle lines join. Get an extra crew: otherwise, one death will either disable it or require a 6+ to hit. Nice against Fell Beasts...most everything else should require an In The Way, unless your opponent gets sloppy. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I haven't used one I looked st it and on paper it just doesn't do it for me. I would purposefully deploy if I could to absolutely take it out of commission within two turns. After that it would be useless. Your luckiest roll would place you 24" away from a savvy opponent. They can either charge it with a few models, engage your force totally and make sure you have no shots, shoot the crew, have a spell to make you shoot on 6+, whord small point units, legolas the crew, etc. That's just what I can think up in 30 seconds.... I can see it making its points back if like you said they have cav, a shieldwall slow pace army, etc. A siege.....but not a points match from the book. |
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| Author: | chiefhugh [ Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I just used it and it was great. However everything was perfect for it. Little terrain allowed it to cover almost all of the board. I did two wounds on the balrog and messed up some goblins. What 75 +/- point mini can say that? The special shot it uses is great. I would only take it if I knew the conditions would be in its favor. Try it. it is a lot of fun. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 11:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Then I guess it can be useful, but only in optimal conditions. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Tue Jul 21, 2015 6:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Lets put it this way.....for around 75 points with crew and whatnot, sure......it would be good if you deployed 48 inches away. With warbands the luckiest you can get it putting it 24 inches away and they can heroic move and make it so you cant feasibly shoot in more than two rounds....or three. Id likely take an army with two ballistas and use their warbands leaders might to deploy them far back. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I'm actually going through the same struggle for my Dwarf army, which one would be a better fit? I see the Ballista's job being twofold. One: killing targets that Dwarves don't like, and two: being a present threat to limit how your opponent can move. It's scarier and more powerful than 6-7 archers, though I would consider the latter to be more reliable. Archers can also lend their weight to combat, that's a big advantage. Depends what you're facing and what else you have in your army. If it hasn't come across yet, I myself have no idea what I like better. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 6:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I dont think anyone has mentioned the fact that you waste two more dwaves as crewmen instead of combat as well....and imagine if you used 3 or 4. |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
That is a good point, you have to give up a few dwarves to "pilot" the ballista. However, I will say, that the pain inflicted by a Ballista and the shotgun effect the dwarf ballista has, makes up for the fact that you have to sacrifice some dwarves in your formation. Don't forget, the ballista may have an str 9, but if you hit a target that does not have a def or wound count of 10 somewhere on its profile, they die even if they take a single wound and have more remaining (see pg 93-94 "rolling to wound" of the main rule book). Otherwise they lose half their wounds. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sat Jul 25, 2015 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Again, it becomes a question of what you find more valuable, 6-7 extra guys in combat, or the potential for a very powerful shot every turn. Plus, when the ballista is completely out of options and has no hope of taking another shot, you could send your crew out to help in combat. So no, I wouldn't completely discount the ballista. One good ballista shot is probably more damage than a group of archers will do over the entirety of a game with their shooting. It's situational, but then again, so are the archers. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Do you guys know how to deploy these things? Are they just part of a regular warband? |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Yep, just like any warrior. If you slap a captain on there then he's the warband's leader and you deploy the Ballista first, followed by any other models in the warband. |
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| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 5:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
And they are mobile. They aren't fast but they can move. |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Sun Jul 26, 2015 10:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I think is worth a playtest. |
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| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Guys.....gloryforgondors cousin used one today in our game where we could deploy like 40 inches away from each other. The thing literally missed almost the whole game and barely took out any units. With the scatter rule it missed its main target every time and took out maybe 20-25 points worth the whole game...... Terrible showing. |
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| Author: | Rozinante [ Mon Jul 27, 2015 10:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Hate that scatter shot... As long as the opponent has a foot soldier or two near important targets, the chances of a direct hit are few or Might sucking--which, ok, is the only use of a Ballista's Captain's Might anyway. But those two Might are so expensive to make the thing effective...once. Maybe twice. The Gondor Avenger Bolt Thrower seems more tempting. Recently picked up a Windlance: the beauty of it, and the promise of the (scatterless) Black Arrow won me over...but just too expensive for an competative army under 1K points. Four Mordor Orc Assault Bows for that price! |
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| Author: | Dikey [ Wed Aug 05, 2015 10:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
Rozinante wrote: Hate that scatter shot... As long as the opponent has a foot soldier or two near important targets, the chances of a direct hit are few or Might sucking--which, ok, is the only use of a Ballista's Captain's Might anyway. But those two Might are so expensive to make the thing effective...once. Maybe twice. The Gondor Avenger Bolt Thrower seems more tempting. Recently picked up a Windlance: the beauty of it, and the promise of the (scatterless) Black Arrow won me over...but just too expensive for an competative army under 1K points. Four Mordor Orc Assault Bows for that price! The Gondor bolt thrower is ineffective: it has no piercing shot, no instant death, no piercing strike. At least the ballista can knock down any model behind the first. |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
the gondor bolt thrower its a Mega S bow that fire to multiple targets... but thats it... |
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| Author: | Isilduhrr [ Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dwarf Ballista- Useful or not? |
I find the Gondor Avenger to be quite effective if you use Swift Reload (2d6 and pick the highest) as an upgrade. If you throw it in as well as a band of archers then your force turns into quite a heavy ranged threat, even, as I've found, against Elves. A lucky turn of shooting can take down small to mid-level heroes and the psychological factor causes your opponent to deploy and move evasively, which is a good moment for my KOMT to charge. |
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