| The One Ring http://gbain.powweb.com/ |
|
| Most OP good model http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28562 |
Page 1 of 2 |
| Author: | ElfGeneral [ Fri Apr 18, 2014 10:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Most OP good model |
What do guy think are the most overpowered good models in the game? |
|
| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
They don't overpower Good models, only Evil ones. |
|
| Author: | Havanna [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 12:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Unlike the other gw systems no one model is really too op as it can be countered by lots of other stuff. Boromir captain of the white tower especially when mounted and lanced is fairly annoying though. |
|
| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
If you're going purely point for point its the King's Champion. He's worth more than his points; however, he does have a glaring weakness so I don't consider him OP |
|
| Author: | ElfGeneral [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:55 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Lord Hurin wrote: They don't overpower Good models, only Evil ones. That's why I asked I can't think of a single Reaver type unit for the good side that everyone thinks is OP JamesR wrote: If you're going purely point for point its the King's Champion. He's worth more than his points; however, he does have a glaring weakness so I don't consider him OP What's his weakness, I just bought one for a new army list and thought he looked really good |
|
| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Any magic but specifically compel. You move him away from his heralds and suddenly he gets all the negatives of transfix/compel and a -2 def. Also he can't heroic combat without the same problem. In a recent game I killed the KC with the Golden King in one fight because of the loss of defense |
|
| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
They make good cases. I've heard boromir of gondor for pts value with all that might on horse but he can't lead a warband.... Mirkwood rangers are a lot of points but they're terrible to fight. Auto two attacks fight five you know how hard it is with evil? I had like 25 morannons try to kill ten and almost fail. Plus they cut you to pieces before you get to combat too.... |
|
| Author: | Dr Grant [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
It's a really interesting question and one that doesn't have a simple answer, fun debating though! It really depends on what you mean by OP - either you mean the model is vastly too powerful in the game or the model is far better than their points suggest. In terms of value for points Erkenbrand's one of the most OP models out there. He essentially gets his horn and Redshield ability for free. When you consider that a normal warhorn is 20 points and his is twice as good (and is even better as it's held by a hero) then he's probably at least 40 point cheaper than he should be. Legolas could be seen as OP once you give him an elven cloak. Auto-hitting your heroes from afar in complete safety. A good contender is a simple Wood Elf warrior. Compare them to a warrior of Rohan - for just one extra point they lose a point of defence but gain +2 Fight, +1 shoot, +2 courage and Woodland Creature (not to mention the ability to shield once you but them a spear. If you think how much that saving stacks up across the game you can begin to see how OP even basic elves are. Dwalin's another rood contender, his S5 and Burly essentially gives him Anduril (against anything D7 or less) for 10 points, when you consider that Aragorn has to pay 75 points for the same bonus (and in fact Dwalin is better, wounding on 3+ against anything D5 or lower) then you can see what a bargain he is. To be fair I think that one's more a case of Anduril being overpriced than Dwalin being underpriced but the gap in costs is still huge. There are other models too that may not seem OP on their own but as soon as you slip them into other lists they quickly become vastly unbalanced. Malbeth, Bombur, Alfrid etc. are all this kind of hero, looking at their stat line along you'd never call them OP but put them behind a thick batteline and suddenly they can become game changers. I've played against Alfrid and Legolas before and that's a horrific combo. At one point Legolas was on 5 Might and auto-hit my Witch King, when my opponent rolled the dice to Wound he was essentially just seeing how much Might Leggy would have to use to guarantee the kill. Once he's done that, Alfrid could just top him up again. Put Bombur in there and he becomes even more horrific. If on the other hand you simply mean too powerful in the game then I don't think there's a glaring problem, Glorfindel, Boromir COTWT, Saruman the White, Gil-Galad etc. are all incredibly powerful and hard to deal with but pretty reasonably costed all things considered. Fun idea for a thread! |
|
| Author: | Dr Grant [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Mirkwood rangers are a lot of points but they're terrible to fight. Auto two attacks fight five you know how hard it is with evil? They're not auto-two attacks, all you need to do is charge them with one and a spear support, they go down pretty quick with D3. I agree about their shooting though, 100% elf bows is devastating. |
|
| Author: | Valadorn [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
If your enemy has no magic and especially this spell, you champion is a really good model indeed, a nice investment in a large 750+ army. Another way is to take advantage of your speed but with that high defence its also difficult to get hit. Someone may distract you with cheap warriors as they shoot you or use bats etc etc. Just be prepared that he will be one of the main targets. 
|
|
| Author: | Coenus Scaldingus [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 10:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Rohan outriders on foot and the Mirkwood rangers are too strong in comparison to similar models: the former are the same price as warriors of Rohan with bow, but better in various aspects (without any downsides really), while the Mirkwood rangers are the same price as a Wood Elf warrior with Elven cloak and Elf bow, so gain the knife fighers rule for free. This is mostly due to the price of Elven cloaks, rarely taken on normal warrior anyway. For the same reason, Woses are rather cheap as well - excluding the cost of their Elven cloak ability, they'd technically be 2 points.  A surprise contender is Meriadoc, Captain of the Shire. Compare him to the 'Knight of the Mark': at 5 extra points, you get an extra attack, additional wound.. and the Horn of the Riddermark, which would cost the 'Knight' a whopping 20 points. Former can also lead warbands. As for the King's champion, even when vulnerable to magic, he is still too cheap. Simply having a strong combat hero and two banners for that price is a bargain, that they happen to have some nice advantages when stuck together is only a bonus. Then there is a plethora of named heroes, but those are usually 'only' 5-15 points too cheap, and seeing how you can only take one in an army.. much less of an issue. |
|
| Author: | Dr Grant [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Merry's a good shout Coenus - very tidy little Might caddy. An interesting thing that Tom Harrison pointed out to me once is that GW don't think you should pay for increased Shoot value. If you follow the accepted points rubric (1 point per pip of stat and special rule for Warriors and 5 points for Heroes) then across the board, underpriced models balance out if you don't pay for their shoot value. Rohan Outriders, Vrasku, Watchers of Karna and many more seem better balanced if they haven't paid for their increased shoot value. It's absurd of course, moving from a 4+ shoot value to 5+ makes a huge difference but it was an interesting observation that does hold true across a lot of profiles. I like Mirkwood Rangers, I think their fairly costed and I don't think they're too strong. Yeah they get their Knife Fighter rule for free but this is mitigated by the fact that they have to take Elven Cloaks. Very few Mirkwood and Lothlorien players give their Wood Elves Elven Cloaks, another elf is more valuable than 2 Elven Cloaks every day of the week. Thus, the fact that Rangers have to take them means they will almost always be outnumbered so giving them a rule that helps them when outnumbered is quite nice. They also suffer from a lack of equipment, they can't take spears like normal Wood Elves and thus they can't shield with them which makes them incredibly squishy. Sure they can do a lot or damage from afar but as soon as the lines close the Rangers drop like flies. I played with and against them at the Desolation of Stockport tournament last weekend and found they were a well balanced addition to the force. The Knife Fighter rule isn't as powerful as it seems on paper as people are wise to it and simply don't attack them with two models. As I said above, one enemy model supported by a spear will take them down in most fights. In the 7 games I played across the weekend I'd say I probably used the Knife Fighter rule in about 10 Fights max. I think they're a really nice addition to the meta, the best archers in the game but really weak in combat. A normal Wood Elf with elf bow and spear is probably going to be more effective and cost-efficient. |
|
| Author: | LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Dr Grant wrote: LordoftheBrownRing wrote: Mirkwood rangers are a lot of points but they're terrible to fight. Auto two attacks fight five you know how hard it is with evil? They're not auto-two attacks, all you need to do is charge them with one and a spear support, they go down pretty quick with D3. I agree about their shooting though, 100% elf bows is devastating. Oh was that finally officially answered? I haven't played that much attention since last time I played against them. I thought ppl till weren't sure. OK...and nice post by the way. As for wood elves.... think the reason they do that is because their heroes are what a minimum of 65-75 points each whereas goblins orcs and isengard get tough heroes for cheaper....idk. Great post though for your other units mentioned. I think they purposefully do op some units because their armies are poor. Look at arnor....using their regular troops alone I don't think someone would win a tournament. But with those great heroes for the prices maybe.... |
|
| Author: | Bernardo [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
definately erkenbrand, and I would say damrod and beregond are too, because they are at the level of dunedain rangers, and those are independent heroes. having a hero for 20 points is too cheap to lead warbands. |
|
| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Boromir +galadriel protectress of lorian. Not cheap but a fun combo. Or galadriel POL and the king of the dead. Again, not cheap but the ability to drop the courage of your opponents, who already have a low courage, then utilizing boromir or the king of the dead's courage focused special abilities. Very fun. OP good heroes. Still think boromir cotwt is a great option. But hands down, any set of "twin" heroes. Heroes like elledan and elrohir or murin and drar. For some reason, when you take those twin heroes they just, clean, up the battle field. I also think legolas, haldir and drar combined is great. 3 minis, 7 shots, yes please! Though cool, not really OP. That too is an expensive combo. Gimli is another good contender for OP. For less than 100 points you get 4 atks. 1 throwing and 3a once the fight actually starts. A solid dwarf defense and a stellar fight value. Rohan outriders. For 1 extra point you get better shot and courage PLUS you get their vanguard ability. So great! Love those rohan rangers  Second to last, good old woodelves w/ throwing weapons. For 2 more point than a corsair you get throwing weapons and an impressive stat array. I'm telling you, throwing weapons are where its at. And finally, Arathorn. I've used him once, and to my surprise, he is a very potent budget hero. At 5d he is a little soft, but 3 might and 3a with a 5f certainly makes up for the squishy. His profile is fitting for his tale too. A stalwart hero, destined to die. Okay, now i don't know if i'm talking about op good guys or just bragging about my favorite minis in the game. |
|
| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 1:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Tough question. I think I'd have to agree about Erkenbrand. It's not that he's overpowered, because one-to-one he's normal, but he brings so much to the table compared to him point cost that if want to win with Rohan you almost have to have him. The closest I can get to OP is Rumil, but he needs pike support to make you really feel it. For only 84 points (with pikes) he can take on almost any other model in the game. |
|
| Author: | jdizzy001 [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
whafrog wrote: Tough question. I think I'd have to agree about Erkenbrand. It's not that he's overpowered, because one-to-one he's normal, but he brings so much to the table compared to him point cost that if want to win with Rohan you almost have to have him. The closest I can get to OP is Rumil, but he needs pike support to make you really feel it. For only 84 points (with pikes) he can take on almost any other model in the game. I love rumil! I cant believe I forgot about him in my long rant. Rumil with a banner nearby 
|
|
| Author: | Paboook [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 4:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
I have also the worst feeling about King's Champion. Just compare how much would cost his two banner bearers on their own  I am saying this as dwarf player, who avoids using this model as it seems to me too OP for its points and also not really fitting to the Tolkien canon. |
|
| Author: | cereal_theif [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
Kings Champ is not that good. He doesn't have the might to carry himself forward (unless you field alfrid) I'd say 1) Erkenbrand though he has to take rohan so it balances out. 2) Merry is a good shout but he is also just Merry 3) Rumil + support. Watch your hero burn might on those 5's But mostly I say. No, there are not really any overpowered models. Without synergy and a good general your heroes are worthless. I took Gwahir and 2 eagles to the last tournament and came 4th of 46. Very underpowered models but i combined with alfrid, legolas on a horse and bilbo on a pony. Generalmanship and synergy.... and alfrid. |
|
| Author: | LordElrond [ Sat Apr 19, 2014 6:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Most OP good model |
What about Boromir of Gondor mounted, or Isildur mounted with the ring? |
|
| Page 1 of 2 | All times are UTC |
| Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|