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Most competitive army?
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28070		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  samoht [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Most competitive army?
Hey guys, what is the most competitive army to use in a tournament? I've heard it is Mordor. I want to hear your thoughts? GO!
Author:  legion [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Unfortunately LOTRs is not as defined as 40k and Fantasy when deciding what an "Army" is. Technically there are only two armies (Good and Evil), or are you talking about the Factions? In which case there are about 19 of them.... or are you talking about source books? which makes about 5 armies not including the Hobbit and Desolation of Smaug. OR you could be talking about logical fluff races like if I say Dwarves, I mean Army of Thror, Durins Folk, and Thorin's Company combined. Unfortunatly for us, this question needs a bit more clarification for this game system.
Author:  legion [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
In my opinion, by saying "army" we are refering to the books with the Hobbit and Desolation of Smaug models added into each book as logically as possible. In this case there are five armies.....So I would say the Free Peoples are the best. They have a race that complements itself really well with mobile Elven Cavalry, the best Elven Archer, Heavy Dwarven infanty, Hording Hobbit troops, and a plethora of Monsters and Wizards. They easily have the most utility in the game. However if I have to split the Elves and Dwarves, then I would say the Dwarves are a better army overall. But this is diffult to argue since each has severe weaknesses
Author:  samoht [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Sorry guys. I haven't got the most up to date rules about allies and all of that. I now realise there are only two main armies.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Feb 28, 2014 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
legion wrote:
In my opinion, by saying "army" we are refering to the books with the Hobbit and Desolation of Smaug models added into each book as logically as possible. SNIPPETY SNIP SNIP

By army, you should mean "army list" hence the name. Free Peoples is not an army, it is a mixture of lots of armies.
Author:  rigg1313 [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Theres not just 'two' armies Legion?!?!
They simply split the lists with good and evil 'forces'. Then for example in the hobbit there is Thranduils Halls, Thorin's Company, Elrond's Household, Radagasts Alliance, Army of Thror, Army of Laketown, Garrison of Dale. So as you can see there is 7 'armies' alone for good in the Hobbit so far and 4 for evil. That is hardly '2' armies.

Then each sourcebook includes between 1-5 'Armies'. However amongst the Forces of Good and Evil you can ally with anyone on yours forces side so you can take the best of one army whilst taking the best of another.

And concerning Mordor it is regarded one of the 'strongest' lists because it has so much versatility! In one list theres monster, heavy infantry, str 4 troops, light infantry, heavy and light cavalry, even some decent bows with orc trackers and special soldiers like morgul stalkers and the like. Its the closest thing to a complete list that you really don't need to ally anything in with.
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
samoht wrote:
Hey guys, what is the most competitive army to use in a tournament? I've heard it is Mordor. I want to hear your thoughts? GO!


I thought a while ago BlackMist showed that Corsair Reavers backed by spears, and augmented by Harad bowmen, were the most competitive. Anyway, Harad, Wood Elves, Mordor, and even Gondor (with lots of shielded FC) are all competitive. And the others can be, you just might have to work harder.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
How did he show that?
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Reavers are cheap, high fight, extra attack and their Defense was bumped to 4, making them survive better against elf bows. Once you get into combat they rival elves, but get that all-important extra die from spear support. Meanwhile, Harad poison arrows can be nasty.

If you want more detail you'll have to dig back through the posts to when the latest sourcebooks were released (Feb 2012 I think).
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Oh I know what they do but how can he actually prove something like that...
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
It's basic math: odds of hitting vs odds of wounding, average game duration, combat efficiency, etc. I know he had a pretty good track record in tournaments, and from what he said much of it started with the army creation process.

That said, I think the game was more predictable before the warband structure and deployment rules. You pretty much started as far away as you could, volleyed and shot while inching forward, and then your shield walls would finally meet. IMHO: boooring :)

Now...I'd still put my money on Reavers + spears, because the deployment rules allow you to get right in there if you want, and heroic marches shorten the distance without the need for drummers. A Reaver + spear has the same odds of winning and wounding as a Galadhrim + 2 pikes, but is 1/2 the cost. Ridiculous really. Of course, you can shoot the spears easier than they can shoot the pikes, so ... it really depends on the game flow and scenario.

Man do I ramble... :)
Author:  Nikrandonia [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Reavers are in my view the best point for point models in the game. For those who have experienced the game over a period of years;
1. What changes would be needed to their profile to make them balanced? or are they already balanced?
2. In tolkien lore, were Corsairs that powerful? As in could go toe to toe with elves comfortably?

It doesn't make much sense to me that some pirates can take on the eldest and wisest race in middle earth :roll:

However if someone knows better I would be happy to be corrected 8)
Author:  whafrog [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Nikrandonia wrote:
2. In tolkien lore, were Corsairs that powerful? As in could go toe to toe with elves comfortably?

It doesn't make much sense to me that some pirates can take on the eldest and wisest race in middle earth :roll:


You're right, it doesn't make much sense, though it's not entirely terrible thematically. Umbar was the southern colony of Numenor, while Gondor and Arnor were the northern. Umbar "fell to the dark side" sooner, they (and presumably colonies further south) were loyal to the Numenorian crown, who was corrupted by Sauron. The northern colonies were loyal to "the Faithful" and allied with the elves.

IOW, they're all of Numenorian descent. If you wanted to revamp the profiles to be in keeping with the novels, you could leave Corsairs mostly alone (maybe bring Reavers back to F4, because two attacks is plenty), so long as you upgraded Gondor and Numenor.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sat Mar 01, 2014 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
I mean when every single day they fight for their livelihood they probably have to be pretty good. Furthermore they are the reavers the elite of elite pirates
Author:  black1blade [ Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
But elves are immortal.
Author:  Highlordell [ Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
I like the Reaver = Numenorean descent line of thought. Helps to justify their power, perhaps also their madness.

But yeh as whafrog has pointed out, your top 3 would be Harad (though mainly in the way listed, as the variety in the list inevitably means some parts aren't as good as others.. *cough* Mahud *cough*), followed by Wood Elves, then either Gondor (again, depending on what is used), or Isengard, which is very strong all round.

That said, Moria can make a very competitive list with Groblog and Shaman's.

I think it's good there's no 'one list' massivley better than all the others.
Author:  LordoftheBrownRing [ Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
black1blade wrote:
But elves are immortal.



That doesnt mean they're better at digging an axe into someones skull.
Author:  Gondorian Captain [ Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
In my opinion the 'Most competitive army' does not exist.

Regardless of how strong or powerful you make a list there will always be another list out there which will have strengths that can exploit your weaknesses.
The top lists soon become well known and ways to combat them are devised. This is one of the great things about how the game meta changes and adapts over time.

In my view most of the factions are quite nicely balanced and allying some with others can really be quite the force multiplier.
Author:  Valadorn [ Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Highlordell wrote:
Harad (though mainly in the way listed, as the variety in the list inevitably means some parts aren't as good as others.. *cough* Mahud *cough*)


Yeah mahud were so much nerfed :( , but the half troll of far harad was a sweet present to these armies :kitten:
Author:  The newbie [ Wed Mar 19, 2014 7:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Most competitive army?
Woses with axes supported by Woodelves ;)
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