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Grimhammers...
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26649		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  crixalis [ Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Grimhammers...
Wondering what the thoughts are on grimhammers and how to get the best out of them in an army list.

I really like the models, and it would seem a shame not to use them in an army of Thror.

Whats the consensus on the problems with these guys? Lack of shields leave them lacking defensively?

How could you tailor an army list to fitting them in? Put them in warbands with shield-wearing erebor dwarfs infront of them perhaps?

Generally any thoughts or info on anything relating to grimhammers would be excellent here :D
Author:  JamesR [ Thu Oct 31, 2013 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
This is a common question on this site.
I dislike Grimhammers because they are but worth their points. And they are by far the weakest of all Dwarf "Elites".
For their points there are far better units you could play
Author:  ChrisC [ Fri Nov 01, 2013 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
I'm looking to proxy them as Khazad Guard, simply because of how much I like the models.

If you're building a list around them, try for a 1:1:2 list of

1 Erebor Dwarf with shield to;
1 Grimhammer to;
2 Erebor Dwarfs with Spears.

This should allow you to do a line like this, (ES = Shield, GH = Grimhammer, Es = Spear)

Es - Es - Es - Es - Es
ES - GH - ES - GH - ES

Shields defend, Spears support, Grimhammers deliver the punch from within the shield wall. This is the way I've seen most people suggest you play them.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
I like the idea of proxy as KG. They are really nice looking and though I think they may have a niche use I agree that they are not as flexible as KG.
Author:  black1blade [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
They're quite good for me because my little group's house rules prevent the use of special strikes for models that don't have special rules concerning them.
Author:  Thermo [ Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
I think we might do a video about Grimhammers on the youtube channel soon. My solution for keeping them unique as an elite dwarf unit and encouraging players to buy and use them? Give them the burly special rule...
Author:  black1blade [ Sat Nov 09, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
That would make sense considering that there entry says something about being stronger than there peers.
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Literally the only reason why Grimhammers aren't more popular is because they are worth exactly their points. Meanwhile, Khazad Guards (the most OP unit in the game IMO) are the same points, but have more strength, more defense and are never going to fail a courage test.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Draugluin wrote:
Literally the only reason why Grimhammers aren't more popular is because they are worth exactly their points. Meanwhile, Khazad Guards (the most OP unit in the game IMO) are the same points, but have more strength, more defense and are never going to fail a courage test.


And they are way too weak. Only str 3 and they have throwing weapons included in their cost (which are worthless) and they have nothing thats better than their peers. Iron Guard have 2 attacks, Vault-Wardens have the great D, Khazad are the most balanced Dwarf Elite.

I dont think Khazad guard are remotely the "most OP" unit. Their Body-guard rule is not unique to them and their base stat-line is nothing too specacular
Author:  Draugluin [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
If you take a dwarf, give it a 2handed weapon and throwing weapons, it exactly equals the cost of a Grimhammer. That's what I mean by exactly worth it. If you take a regular dwarf and apply the upgrade costs, you would end with Khazads being 16 points. That's what I mean by most OP, most models are within 1-2 points of where they should be, but they're 5 points too cheap.
Author:  crixalis [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Draugluin wrote:
If you take a dwarf, give it a 2handed weapon and throwing weapons, it exactly equals the cost of a Grimhammer. That's what I mean by exactly worth it. If you take a regular dwarf and apply the upgrade costs, you would end with Khazads being 16 points. That's what I mean by most OP, most models are within 1-2 points of where they should be, but they're 5 points too cheap.

So if we're saying that grimhammers aren't overcosted for what you get... is there a reasonable use for them as the "elites" in erebor warbands (which obviously can't take khazad etc)? Or is the only way a two-handed hard-hitter can work in an army, by being undercosted for what you get i.e. cheap Khazads?

Do we think that grimhammers are bad because for the same points you get a much better Khazad guard? Or do we think they're bad because there's no place for a two-handed weilder without it having better stat values?
Author:  VictoryGin [ Tue Dec 03, 2013 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Thermo wrote:
Give them the burly special rule...


This 8)

VG
Author:  N00bie_Boy [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 4:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
JamesR wrote:
Draugluin wrote:
Literally the only reason why Grimhammers aren't more popular is because they are worth exactly their points. Meanwhile, Khazad Guards (the most OP unit in the game IMO) are the same points, but have more strength, more defense and are never going to fail a courage test.


And they are way too weak. Only str 3 and they have throwing weapons included in their cost (which are worthless) and they have nothing thats better than their peers. Iron Guard have 2 attacks, Vault-Wardens have the great D, Khazad are the most balanced Dwarf Elite.

I dont think Khazad guard are remotely the "most OP" unit. Their Body-guard rule is not unique to them and their base stat-line is nothing too specacular


Throwing weapons? Weak? Sure don't rely on them, but they have proved to me to be a great push when charging. If I am lucky, I knock out some of their first line and can start pushing in the second.
Author:  JamesR [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
You're absolutely correct N00bie_Boy, but it's only a 33% chance of hitting and adding in a successful wound lowers that significantly, so for a few more points a Iron Guard will do the same thing with a throwing axe but he's also far more effective in the successive combat
Author:  N00bie_Boy [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
JamesR wrote:
You're absolutely correct N00bie_Boy, but it's only a 33% chance of hitting and adding in a successful wound lowers that significantly, so for a few more points a Iron Guard will do the same thing with a throwing axe but he's also far more effective in the successive combat

True.
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Throwing weapons were seriously nerfed in the Hobbit rules, no? So I really don't think they're worth their supposed 2 points anymore.

It's also amusing to have an Evil-only player calling a Good unit overpowered or too cheap when Evil has countless things of this ilk. Never hear about Hunter Orcs or Abrakhan Guard or Black Numenoreans being too cheap for their stats... :P
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Grimhammers are not worth it, played against it last week, Morannon Orcs who cost less than them, proved more efficient against them.
Author:  cereal_theif [ Thu Feb 20, 2014 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Just get a few of them and smash people off their horses.
Author:  slaktarn [ Fri Feb 21, 2014 11:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
How did you get 16p for a khazad? Base warrior, add +1D=1p, +1S=1p, 2-handed=1p this comes to 11p. Bodyguard cost zero for all warriors except new palace guards apparently.
The way I would fix grimhammers are to not give them penalty for their trowing axes. That would make them unique.
Author:  NarsilReforged [ Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Grimhammers...
Yeah that's what I was thinking slaktarn. I would still say better statline is better than equipment in the example of Khazad vs Grimhammer and I think the former are much more reliable but they both seem to be exactly worth their points compared to their base warriors.
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