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how to counter elves
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26543		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  ezer123 [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  how to counter elves
Hi guys.

Next month I will be playing a 1500 pt match of a friends elves vs my uruk/easterlings. I got a pretty bad list, mostly because i dont have enough models, but the 1 thing that I really worry about is his tactics. So far all our games were so close. He won, I won the rematch.

First of all:
He has an Elrond and Lindir. I know that that will be natures wrath every turn. that will devasted my riders and phalanxes. How do I play against that? Elrond is not the problem in close combat. I got 2 trolls to deal with him. but that magic, I cant stand that. I know shielding is my friend, but then i get up, and he again gains prio, and im knocked down again.

Second of all:
Im taking about 18 orks for 1 reason: operation living shield. they must keep his achers busy. He might take Thranduil and make them hit on 2s. that also will destroy my phalanxes. Is 18 orks a good idea, should i take more or less, or should i take something totally different. :roll:

And the 3rd and last point:
are morannons a good idea against elves? I have been doubting a lot about it. if I can get them in CC, they will pown (I hope) but i also need numbers, cause he will shoot me to small, really small pieces before we get in CC :shock: . So Morannons???

aready thanks,
Sorry for my bad english, im from Holland 8)

The Ezer123
Author:  whafrog [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
Anything D6 is better against elves. They'll still lose more fights, but only die 1/6th of the time instead of 1/3rd against both elvish shooting and combat. So Uruks and Easterlings are a great start if you give them shields, and Morannons with shields are just as useful. Morannons with spear and shield are even more useful, providing support and a very tough second line. Easterlings also have this option.

If you're facing High Elves with shields you might appreciate the extra strength of the Morannons, otherwise the Easterlings might be a better bet if you have lots of them with shield and pike. They fight just as well, wound D5 just as well, and tend to stick around a bit longer after breaking. Uruks with pikes aren't shielded, so you can bet they will be targeted first by elvish archers. Give support duty to the Easterlings and/or Morannons.

One slight issue is that these troops cost almost as much as elves do, so even if you outnumber him it will be by a small margin. You'll make up for it with cheaper heroes, and that might be reason enough to take some regular orcs to act as screens. Try to match his numbers 1-for-1 with your heavy hitters, and use your cheaper heroes to take a small horde of minions.

A few shamans would be very useful for the orcish ranks, both to keep them around if you break, and to possibly recover a few wounds. They're also cheap. A budget wraith can also be useful, if you can use it to target Lindir, and then sap Elrond's will.
Author:  ezer123 [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
Thanks for your quick reaction,

I got 2 shamans (1 uruk and 1 easterling) in my army, and about 3 banners (easterling, uruk and amdur) and all my front troops but my 'operation living shield' have d6. I can add about 8 morannon orks without even dropping a thing in my army, and maybe i will change some more. The only bad thing is that he also has 3 banners, and I think he wil take them all, so there goes the most use of the banners, cause we both get rerolls now.

my standerd formation with uruks is 5 shieldman front, behind that captain en 4 berserkers en 2 lines of pikes. to both sides of the pikes are standing more uruks with shield. behind the pikes stands a shaman and/or a banner. so that will protect the pikes from most danger.
Author:  Bilbo [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
Wraiths can sap will and drain courage, which could help neutralise Elrond and Lindir.
Author:  whafrog [ Thu Oct 10, 2013 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
ezer123 wrote:
my standerd formation with uruks is 5 shieldman front, behind that captain en 4 berserkers en 2 lines of pikes.


Sounds like a pike block, which is a dangerous idea. You can easily end up with your front man trapped. A model can't make way for a model that is making way. The first pike might want to move back if you lose the fight, but other models can't move to give him the space to do so. If your berzerker is trapped, it's even worse...it's a profile costing double, but with only one wound.

Pikes are great, but try to avoid tight formations.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 12:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
And don't go overboard with the Banners. I know it sounds good to be able to get the help winning the Fight, but you tie up a lot of models in the banner. Even more if you have multiple. And they are easy and juicy targets for accurate archers. If you were really loading up on cheap models such as basic Orcs then I wouldn't say much but, as whafrog pointed out, your forces may cost nearly as much as the Elves. You would probably be better served with more troops or upgraded Heroes vs. the banners. At least don't take more than one.
Author:  ezer123 [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
damnn I didnt fought about that, the higher F5/6 of the elves powns my uruks. Back to the drwaingboard.

The reason I take banners are not only cause it helps win the fight, but we are gonna do taht scenario with the artifect (with a few changes) and we do that every standing banner is 1 victory point. And a kataphrackt army with banners will really help their impackt.
Author:  Denizen [ Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: how to counter elves
How about the Shadowlord? Would help to neutralize his shooting and his Lindir/Elrond.

Morannons would be the better choise against Elves since they don't 'waste' points for F4. Combined with Channeled Fury I see no reason why they wouldn't tear those elves apart.

You have 2 Trolls you say? Hurl hurts his elves, a lot! Trying to dismount his mounted models with them is also a good idea. Or throw a model against his banners.

Saruman would work well too.
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