Sounds good. Can't wait to get a game in
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| How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26091 |
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| Author: | VictoryGin [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
I have had 0 success using orc archers in my list to take out horses and my friend keeps flanking me with 5 gondor knights with a captain. How can I beat these? I typically use two Uruk warbands (led by a shaman and captain) and one mordor led by a ringwraith variant with a few orcs. Also, while i'm here. The Eternal Willpower rule of The Undying...I don't understand the wording. Does it mean On a 4, 5 or 6 that I don't use up a will point? Thanks! VictoryGin |
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| Author: | UWC [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
I play Goblins and I've found their bows and most bows to be more or less useless xD. You know, when most ppl deploy bows, they seem to only use them for archery and forget they can be used effectively in combat also. Personally, with the points you use on your bowmen, just swap 'em for something more useful. Not sure about Gondor Knights but any cavalry in general is severely crippled if you get the drop on them, just save up Might points for when they come around and call a Heroic move to charge them before they charge you! |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
I can only answer your question on dealing with the knights as I don't have the Mordor sourcebook. There's several effective ways for killing Cav, as mentioned above if you can charge them first that's highly effective, but can be difficult as it requires a little luck with the dice (for priority). Another is to simply space your troop out slightly and allow them to charge one of your units and then swarm them with the units that are not yet engaged. Cav have larger bases that allow for you to put more of your own units into combat against them, take advantage of that. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
It sounds like it might be your reaction that dooms you. "Flanking" in this game doesn't really have the same kind of effect as in other games, so long as you have the space and models to create a new front. Those "knights" are actually pretty poor representatives of their name: they have exactly the same fight score as a basic Orc, which means even if they charge, if you can get a second Orc into the fight the odds of winning are 50/50. So swarm them, your odds of winning will be much higher. If you only have Orcs, consider killing the horse first (better odds of killing, and it takes their main advantage away). If you have Morranons or Uruks, they will eat knights for breakfast. |
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| Author: | VictoryGin [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
Thanks for the advice. The reason I refer to flanking as the death of me is because I usually use a 30 strong shield/pike/pike phalanx, with a few orcs around the back to try and absorb a charge. I'm not sure how I can charge the knights first due to their superior movement. He simply won't move them within charge range, and I don't use any cavalry. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
VictoryGin wrote: The reason I refer to flanking as the death of me is because I usually use a 30 strong shield/pike/pike phalanx, with a few orcs around the back to try and absorb a charge. Ah, you need to remember this is a skirmish game, not a formation game. Pike blocks are cumbersome, and you can end up trapping your own warriors. Loosen it up a bit, create smaller more flexible units. And if you can create a monolithic frontage like that, I'm wondering if you're using enough terrain...33-50% coverage is what the rules recommend, for good reason. Quote: I'm not sure how I can charge the knights first due to their superior movement. He simply won't move them within charge range, and I don't use any cavalry. You can't charge them first, you have to absorb the first charge. But you need to be ready to counter charge, with a hero ready for heroic move if necessary. So a few lone orcs isn't going to cut it, they need to be supported, another reason to loosen up your main block. |
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| Author: | VictoryGin [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
That's a very good point! What kind of small formations would you recommend? Maybe 2 small blocks of 4 shields 8 pikes, with 6 spears, 6 shields orcs to tie up the cavalry. Thing is, he consistently uses a line of about 12 WoMT with shields backed up with spears. Would I attack the corners of this? Or should I take 5x Warg riders with my remaining points to try and get around? |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
Spectres supported by orc with spears are great. you can often force the cavalry to move near enough to be charged by your troops with their "Fell Light in in them" rule. This is much more effective with a ring wraith and his "Harbringer of Evil" special rule. Also, with this mix it will mean that the Knights are more likely to fail to charge than not. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
VictoryGin wrote: Maybe 2 small blocks of 4 shields 8 pikes... That's too wide again. All he has to do is wrap around you to pin your support, and then all your front guys are trapped. Remember, you can't make way for someone making way. VictoryGin wrote: Thing is, he consistently uses a line of about 12 WoMT with shields backed up with spears. Would I attack the corners of this? Or should I take 5x Warg riders with my remaining points to try and get around? The latter isn't bad, or it at least can keep his own cavalry at bay. One tactic that seems to work well against Gondor is a strong pike-backed core with tough unbanked shields on the wings (Uruk hai, or Morannons). Meet his line head on, and shield with the unsupported warriors...they have pretty good odds of surviving. Your supported core should demolish his center, your wings shouldn't be too devastated, then you can split and mop up. Spectres can also be useful, but I've found this true only near a wraith, and only if the enemy doesn't field a horn. You could even save some points and go with a budget wraith (with extra might and fate), giving you more warriors to overwhelm him with. |
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| Author: | VictoryGin [ Mon Jun 24, 2013 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: How do I beat Gondor Knights without archers? |
Sounds good. Can't wait to get a game in
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