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| Lurtz underpowered http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26018 |
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| Author: | Thecow [ Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Lurtz underpowered |
I have recently started using Lurtz and find him rather underpowered for one of the first uruk-hai made. He is also rather weak for an uruk who almost killed Aragorn. So, I decided to try some special rules out on him and found that pretty much all of them are useless with him (or I'm awfull at picking special rules) so I have no idea what to use. Can you please help me out because I really like the figure but see no point in using it if he dosnt contribute to the fight. |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
You are not alone in this opinion. I for one would prefer to see him slightly better. The problem as it stands at the moment is that his bow reduces his defence and he can't just throw away his bow (unless you use house rules). So point for point - if you upgrade an Uruk Captain with heavy armour and shield, he has more D and is equal in everything else except for might. So the trade off is the higher defence for a cheap point of extra might. Normally, its a good choice to go for the might as he won't be getting wounded to often by S3 troops, so the extra +1 doesn't make much difference. I would just apply the house rule of him not losing the +1D while carrying the bow, or enable him to discard it. |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
I would prefer an additional point of might to anything else, like he has in WOTR. Maybe a special rule for crying out loud, he is very underwhelming. A pure Isengard army has very little power in the movie heroes. |
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| Author: | Raspberrygoop [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Give him a better shoot value and a dwarf bow and you have something that might've been able to kill a softened-up shieldless Boromir. Poor Lurtz. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Agreed, he doesn't bring anything compelling to the table. I'm not really a fan of the bow-dropping house rules, I think he should bring more leadership to the table. Something simple like larger standfast, or a "Find the Halflings" rule that lets him call a heroic move that is free on a 4-6 would make him more compelling. |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Personally I feel that he should be beefed up to the level of Super Shagrat (I can't remember his precise name as I am away from the book). A special rule would naturally be marvelous. I like the idea of him being able to use his shield as a one off throwing weapon with the effect of transfixing the enemy for one turn as they are pinned to an object such as a tree. Why we didn't have a "Find the Halfling" special rule is beyond me. I suspect that having the effect as a banner, a boost to speed or courage for a turn at the expense of a point of will would be appropriate. |
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| Author: | Stormcrow [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Iv had pretty much the same thoughts about lurtz. The slayer of borimir is not very well represented in the game. I like the thought of his sheid as a thrown weapon but his defence should be higher and his shooting skill better. An automatic hit rule similar to legolas would be an idea!?! |
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| Author: | JamesR [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
An auto hit?? Don't you think that's a bit overkill? Lol none of his shots were all that hard in the movie. At best he should be a 3+ shoot. |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
There are no reasons why you wouldn't take vrasku over lurtz tbh what with 2S4shots a turn with a 3+ to hit and same ammount of might to boot |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Bilbo wrote: Why we didn't have a "Find the Halfling" special rule is beyond me. Historical context. Early versions of the game had very few special rules of the kind we're seeing now. Giving Lurtz 3 Might and the ability to shield was special enough. After all, major heroes like Eomer have never had a special rule. Then along come Ugluk and Vrasku, and other heroes like "Uber-brand"...kind of leaving the original heroes a bit flavourless. |
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| Author: | Thecow [ Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Well not all of them, but most of them yes. How about giving Lurtz first of the uruk-hai and and 1 extra strengh? |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Giving him a strength of 6 would make him over powered (no man size model should be as strong as a monster), giving him +1 to strength would amount to the same thing but with better effects. Any tweeking of the rules should reflect his on screen actions. |
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| Author: | Hodush [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 12:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Yeah S6 is a bit too much. The safest things to add would be +defence to a max of 7, he did after all try to eat Aragorn. Failing this, or maybe even in addition to, he could even have 3A - It wasn't until the Isengard troll was introduced that any non-mounted units had 3A for Isengard. Given that Harad, Easterlings etc. all have multiple 3A heroes and they aren't even featured in the books or movies (neither are Isengard trolls), I don't see this as too much of a stretch. |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Changes I would give Lurtz? Fight 6/3+ Defence 6 and 3A, nothing else needed really... unless you wanted him hero slayer, like if he rolls 6 to wound count as 2 wounds instead of 1 or so... All this making him cost around 80pts or so |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
or we could simply give him 3 shots/turn |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
That would be 2 much like Legolas sadly... Marhur is expert at giving uruk scouts that movement boost for a few more points Vrasku expert crossbow shooter Ugluk excelent standfast range Every single named captain got a special skill that makes them excel at something, lurtz could be the best at the fight and pretty decent at shooting and getting an hero killing power or a buff for combat. |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
I just looked at my rotk rule book and he used to be D6, new rule Fantatical devotion: when lurtz uses his fate if a 6 is rolled the fate is not spent, but the wound is saved |
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| Author: | Sticky Fingersss [ Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
I don't think Lurtz would need any special rules for his shooting skills as they weren't exactly difficult shots. I think something to represent the fact that he easily took a bunch of wounds and was able to fight pretty enthusiastically. I'd go for an extra wound and fate point. |
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| Author: | Orome [ Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
I'd personally like to see new/alternate profiles for both Lurtz and Ugluk. Mordor has plenty of powerful heroes, whereas the only Isengard hero over 70 points is Saruman. Ridiculous. Lurtz is the leader in the films, and Ugluk leads them in the book. Whilst I don't think either need Shagratification (I'll explain why later) both deserve a bit of a beef up, to make Isengard's heroes more competitive. Vrasku is fine, his two-shot rule makes him special enough. In my view, both should have 3 attacks. Why Mauhur, Ugluk's subordinate, gets that I will never understand (I know he has two swords, but wtf?). Their two wounds are fine. Lurtz 3+ Shoot Value. Defence increase would make sense, as would a one point Courage boost (as neither really fear death). Three Might, two Will, two Fate would be good to see in an Evil hero. Obviously their points value would be increased. In terms of Special rules, I think Ugluk's should be a 12-inch Standfast whilst Lurtz could be a banner to all Uruk hai within 12-inch. Anybody agree with that? |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Lurtz underpowered |
Orome, I do love your term "Shagratification" and I intend to insert it into general conversation where possible! |
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