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| Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=23320 |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
Well, as there is a tournament at my door, I needed to prepare an army. I was looking at a list of all my armies, and, as someone who also enters the tourney told me dwarves are little pieces of [word deleted], my choice was almost clear: DWARVES!!!! I heard things like: Baruk Khazad! in my head, but, enough story about it, here comes the list: Warband One: The Iron Guards Ragnar, Captain of the Iron Guard (King's Champion) 12 Iron Guards 305 Points Warband Two: Morgrim's Guards Morgrim, King of Belegost (Dain Ironfoot) 12 Khazad Guards 257 Points Warband Three: Thorgrim's Archers Thorgrim, Hand of the King (Floi, Loremaster of Moria) 12 Dwarven Warriors with Dwarf Bows. 178 Points Total: 750 Points, 39 Models, 12 Bows= 33%, 6 Might So, this is my list, But, now some questions: 1. Would you skip some archers in order to take Durin instead of Dain? The only difference on the tanky side between them seems a Fury like special rule for a extra point of Fate. Also, On the courage side, Dain has a higher courage, and a larger Stand Fast! range, while Durin has a War Horn> 2. As I'm also playing a 500 points match against a Goblin player, I need to change my list. But what should I do? Skip Morgrim's Guard, and change a few Iron Guards into Khazad Guards to get those double Handy's? As far as I know he has Groblog, or how that new Goblin King is called, 3 full warbands of Goblins, some Shamans, Ashrak and two Cave Trolls(they are no problem for Ragnar, as he could slay both of them in around 4 turns I think). 3. When I'm fighting that Goblin player, I can choose the scenario! Well, I thought of something like The High Ground, as it gives me a huge advantage. (My Iron Guards can cut through his Goblins with ease, and then form a line to guard the hill. Oh, and I WON'T ally in spear support. It would be realy nice if you could answer my questions, or comment on the list. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 2:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
A King's Champion can only lead 10 models because the Banner Bearers that accompany him count as 2 of the 12. Dain is probably powerful enough for you, so don't cut down on numbers further, unless the extra pts from dropping the 2 above models gives you enough pts to do so. To do a 500pt version, drop the archers, as you don't need them at that level. Anything against allied cavalry? |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: A King's Champion can only lead 10 models because the Banner Bearers that accompany him count as 2 of the 12. Dain is probably powerful enough for you, so don't cut down on numbers further, unless the extra pts from dropping the 2 above models gives you enough pts to do so. To do a 500pt version, drop the archers, as you don't need them at that level. Anything against allied cavalry? Dropping the troops from the King's Champion's warband would mean that I could eather drop another archer in order to get Durin, Get more Iron Guards from Khazad Guards, or change Floi in eather Gimli, Mardin or Balin. For the cavalry, I'm not planning on allying in horsemen, as I don't know how tourneys on my new gaming location think of WYSIWYG, otherwise I'd make Dwarven Ponyriders. But, if they don't bother with that, I'll use cavalry. For the 500 points, it'll be a King's Champion, Floi, somewhere around 14 Iron Guards and 10 Khazad Guards. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
mastermanje wrote: GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: A King's Champion can only lead 10 models because the Banner Bearers that accompany him count as 2 of the 12. Dain is probably powerful enough for you, so don't cut down on numbers further, unless the extra pts from dropping the 2 above models gives you enough pts to do so. To do a 500pt version, drop the archers, as you don't need them at that level. Anything against allied cavalry? Dropping the troops from the King's Champion's warband would mean that I could eather drop another archer in order to get Durin, Get more Iron Guards from Khazad Guards, or change Floi in eather Gimli, Mardin or Balin. For the cavalry, I'm not planning on allying in horsemen, as I don't know how tourneys on my new gaming location think of WYSIWYG, otherwise I'd make Dwarven Ponyriders. But, if they don't bother with that, I'll use cavalry. For the 500 points, it'll be a King's Champion, Floi, somewhere around 14 Iron Guards and 10 Khazad Guards. Keep Floi, he's rather good in SBG fo his pts, either Durin or Guards, depending on whether you want a more solid baseline, or more powerful hero, I'd go for the first one. Dwarvn Pony-riders sound like a cool conversion. |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
Well, going to pm the tournament-organisator about it today on another forum, and for Floi, i like him, but didn't knew if he was good on the field (never used him) |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
I've never used any Dwarves, but I know they can be very good for other reasons... Use Floi to take out the really powerful speciak rukles thhat you're oponent will be relying upon. |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote: I've never used any Dwarves, but I know they can be very good for other reasons... Use Floi to take out the really powerful speciak rukles thhat you're oponent will be relying upon. Things like terror when a Nazgul is around, things like gothmog? |
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| Author: | Rozinante [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
Spearless dwarves against a goblin swarm? I smell dwarf blood. I haven't fielded Floi since ShadowLord left the field with the decrease in bow use. Still powerful...I'd love to have him on hand just before the Undying needs to use his Will as Fate. If you have choice of scenarios, don't take one that gives VPs by how many models are inside an area: swarms will generally win from sheer numbers, if you can't kill enough fast enough. And you won't have the movement advantage to ge there first to set up your sheld wall outside the perimeter---and with the new 6 inch areas, you'll be hard pressed to have the numbers to defend all that terrain. Expensive elites cut down numbers...and dagelijk Dwarves overpower goblins anyway. Consider numbers, instead, if you know you are fighting gobs. Love to see a battle report! Good luck. |
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| Author: | SidTheSloth [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
spear support is very necessary in most battles but you might be ok if you dont let your opponent even start to think about trying to flank you Quote: rozinante said: ...and dagelijk Dwarves... eeer... what does dagelijk mean? |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
Dwarves do very well without spears. Just bring the KC along and use his banners to help win fights. |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
SidTheSloth wrote: spear support is very necessary in most battles but you might be ok if you dont let your opponent even start to think about trying to flank you Quote: rozinante said: ...and dagelijk Dwarves... eeer... what does dagelijk mean? Dayly @Draugluin Indeed, Iron Guards with banners will totaly overpower spearblocks. Still waiting to hear the response on my question to the organisator. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sat Jun 30, 2012 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
As Draugluin says. Yes, Terror's a good one, unless you're facing Black Numenoreans as it would be a waste. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
I've played as and against dwarves slot, what generally goes down is: A:the heroes end up sinking all their might into combat, getting kills, calling heroics etc. I always use a tonne of shields to help outlast everyone, you have none but you do have two banners, use them well! Back in the lome days my army would be a handful of dwarf elites (just enough to make a front line), maxed out rangers with bows, and then I'd fill up the rest of the points with rohan outriders. I dunno if outriders are still heroes, if they are do it! |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: I've played as and against dwarves slot, what generally goes down is: A:the heroes end up sinking all their might into combat, getting kills, calling heroics etc. I always use a tonne of shields to help outlast everyone, you have none but you do have two banners, use them well! Back in the lome days my army would be a handful of dwarf elites (just enough to make a front line), maxed out rangers with bows, and then I'd fill up the rest of the points with rohan outriders. I dunno if outriders are still heroes, if they are do it! Why would you even use rangers? maybe more range, but in the new gamesystem, your first turn of the game wouldn't even need a volley, but you get better armor and better strength bows in return. |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: I dunno if outriders are still heroes, if they are do it! They are not, but on foot, they cost the same pts as a WoR with bow for identical stats but better shoot value, making regular Rohan archers on foot useless. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Sun Jul 01, 2012 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
mastermanje wrote: SuicidalMarsbar wrote: I've played as and against dwarves slot, what generally goes down is: A:the heroes end up sinking all their might into combat, getting kills, calling heroics etc. I always use a tonne of shields to help outlast everyone, you have none but you do have two banners, use them well! Back in the lome days my army would be a handful of dwarf elites (just enough to make a front line), maxed out rangers with bows, and then I'd fill up the rest of the points with rohan outriders. I dunno if outriders are still heroes, if they are do it! Why would you even use rangers? maybe more range, but in the new gamesystem, your first turn of the game wouldn't even need a volley, but you get better armor and better strength bows in return. I used them back in lome to work with the outriders, as I stated earlier. New game system this would probably be pants bur the premise that dwarfs make a good tanking force for something better off shooting/spellcasting etc still remains. Arnor with spears are worthwhile allies... |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
Well, the organisator said I could use spears looking as normal dwarves with spears, but then the spears needed to be a bit elite, as dwarves are elite(4 fight and/or courage), so I think I'm going for Forlong the Fat with Axemen of Lossarnach turned into dwarves, wich means I'll skip the Khazad Guards and Floi, but change some Iron Guards into Khazad for 2handeds around. And That'd probably mean I can turn Dain into Durin. |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
After the organisator told me I can use these spears, I came up with this list: Warband 1: Durin, 8 Warriors with bows&4 Khazad Guards Warband 2: King's Champion& 10 Iron Guards Warband 3: Forlong& 12 Axemen of Lossarnach But, When I looked at the list again, I saw another option: Warband 1: Gimli, 7 Iron Guards& 4 Khazad Guards Warband 2: Balin with Durin's Axe& 10 Dwarf Warriors with Shields Warband 3: Floi& 10 Dwarf Warriors with bows Warband 4: Forlong& 12 Axemen of Lossarnach. 4 questions left: 1:should I skip some warriors In order to change Gimli into a King's Champion? 2:On the first list, how about changing Durin with Murin&Drar? 3: On the first list, what to do with the points left? 4:Which list should I choose? |
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| Author: | mastermanje [ Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
And option 3: King's Champion, 10 Iron Guards&2 Khazad Guards Dwarven King with either 2handed or throwing axes, 10 Warriors With bows&2 Khazad Guards Floi, 5 Warriors with shields, 1 Warrior with hand weapon. Forlong, 12 Axemen of Lossarnach |
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Elite Dwarf Army - 750 Points |
For some reason, I prefer option 3. How many pts are left in option 1 though? |
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