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| Mahud Tribe- Master/King http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=21906 |
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| Author: | ScarpeIron [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Just getting into collecting Mahud and came across a question... Does a Tribe- Master/King use their own prowess to ignore Courage Tests, while engaging/ed in combat? ((Tribe Master/King charges a terror causing foe...does he roll against his own courage or autopasses it because he is full of Warrior Pride himself)) Thanks in advance, -Scar 
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| Author: | GothmogtheWerewolf [ Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Firstly you don't roll against your courage, you roll and tthen add your couragge. Secondly, the King/Tribe Master does have to pass a courage test (very herd for the Tribe Master) |
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| Author: | Bairchoro [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
We have gone back and forth on the Warrior Pride Rule, and this is how we have come to interpret it: Warrior Pride. The leaders of the Mahûd are not inspirational leaders but instead embolden the rest of the army by showing their willingness to fight the enemy. Mahûd Heroes do not have a “Stand Fast!” and other Mahûd models may never use an allied Hero’s “Stand Fast!”. Any Mahûd Warrior model will automatically pass its Courage test if there is a Tribesmaster or Mahûd King in combat within 12”. Because of such, Mahûd Heroes take their Broken Army Courage tests first as normal (at the beginning of the Move Phase), then move, and then the Mahûd Warriors take their Courage test (if needed) after the Heroes have Moved, and then finally the Warriors move. If there is no Mahûd Hero within 12” of a Mahûd Warrior, he must take a Broken Army Courage test normally. The underlined part is what we added to the description to clarify the rule. What this means: 1) Warrior Pride is only a special rule for broken tests - not any other courage tests the models are required to take. 2) There is a strict order in which Mahud Warriors do their broken test and moves: Hero Broken Test - Hero Move - Warrior Broken Test - Warrior Move (this is different than other "non-Warrior Pride" models which follow: Hero Broken Test - Apply Stand Fast! - Warrior Broken Test - All Models Move) |
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Tue Nov 01, 2011 6:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
You don't have to test for courage for all your models before moving after you've been broken, you just have to test for each model before it is moved. You also have to roll for you courage for every model on your side, even if they aren't going to be moved. So the order isn't really any different, just what you wrote clarifies it. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 12:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Bairchoro wrote: 1) Warrior Pride is only a special rule for broken tests - not any other courage tests the models are required to take. No, they'd also have to roll courage for terror. If there is a Mahud Tribesmaster or King in combat within 12" they automatically pass and punch Elrond in the nose. Quote: 2) There is a strict order in which Mahud Warriors do their broken test and moves: Hero Broken Test - Hero Move - Warrior Broken Test - Warrior Move (this is different than other "non-Warrior Pride" models which follow: Hero Broken Test - Apply Stand Fast! - Warrior Broken Test - All Models Move) There is no such strict order. You can move models in any order you like. It would certainly be best to get your Mahud heroes into combat first before testing for the warriors, but that's not always possible. Or maybe you've achieved the victory conditions and you want to break...  Also, as Draugluin said, you have to test for each model before it is moved, and then move them before testing someone else. It's one at a time. This has tactical implications because you won't know if the guy next to you is going to follow you into battle, or run away screaming...you will only know after you've moved if you can trap that troll. If you test everybody first you have more global knowledge of the battlefield as a snapshot in time, which kind of goes against the skirmishy nature of the game. |
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| Author: | Bairchoro [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Quote: No, they'd also have to roll courage for terror. If there is a Mahud Tribesmaster or King in combat within 12" they automatically pass and punch Elrond in the nose. I think I see what you are saying, here ... it's in the interpretation of the sentence: Quote: Any Mahûd Warrior model will automatically pass its Courage test if there is a Tribesmaster or Mahûd King in combat within 12”. You are reading this sentence as: " pass its Courage Test = Any Courage Test the model needs to take (including charging a terrifying enemy)"; where I'm reading it as: "pass its Courage Test = Broken Army Courage Test the model needs to take before it can move (not including any other Courage Tests)". I'm basing my interpretation off of the fact that the prevoius sentence is talking about "Stand Fast!" and per pg 35 of the ORB, a "Stand Fast!" courage test ONLY applies to broken status of an army - not other courage tests. My only concern about the "all Courage Tests the model needs to take" interpretation is that it makes terror causing models useless against a horde of 2 Attack/Spear Supported (so 3 attack) waves of warriors. As for the "strict order" - I will concede, I was only giving the example where I would be trying to take advantage of the WP rule as much as possible (and not the other tactical options); so thanks on that clarification. Quote: Also, as Draugluin said, you have to test for each model before it is moved, and then move them before testing someone else. It's one at a time. This has tactical implications because you won't know if the guy next to you is going to follow you into battle, or run away screaming...you will only know after you've moved if you can trap that troll. If you test everybody first you have more global knowledge of the battlefield as a snapshot in time, which kind of goes against the skirmishy nature of the game. The only issue I have with this is that you make it sound like you do not have to test Broken Courage for models that do not intend to move - which is not the case if they are not engaged in combat. Like I said, I understand your interpretation and where it comes from - and Quote: this is how we have come to interpret it
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Considering the low courage of the Mahud Chief and the mediocre courage of the King, the Broken tests (as well as courage tests) would still be failed quite often. If you're opponent has a good number of terror causing units (like Black Numenoreans or Army of the Dead), the Mahud are effectively useless. |
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| Author: | Bairchoro [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
LOL - maybe I'm just letting my Far Harad Xenophobia be overly harsh and limiting ...  ... NAH!
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| Author: | Draugluin [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 3:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Think about them fighting the Army of the Dead, all of the Dead Warriors would wound on a 3+, except against the Chieftains (4+) and the Kings (5+). The would even have similar numbers due to the expence of the Mahud. Meanwhile, the Mahud are wounding on a 6, even with twice the chance to win and to wound, if they lose, they're gonna die. And with Terror, the Dead can pick their fights, making sure they don't get overwhelmed. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Mahud Tribe- Master/King |
Bairchoro wrote: Quote: No, they'd also have to roll courage for terror. If there is a Mahud Tribesmaster or King in combat within 12" they automatically pass and punch Elrond in the nose. I think I see what you are saying, here ... it's in the interpretation of the sentence: Quote: Any Mahûd Warrior model will automatically pass its Courage test if there is a Tribesmaster or Mahûd King in combat within 12”. No interpretation is necessary. "its Courage test" is all courage tests. Why are you limiting it to broken army courage tests? If the rule writers had meant that, they would have specified it. The previous sentence about standfast doesn't imply anything. Bairchoro wrote: My only concern about the "all Courage Tests the model needs to take" interpretation is that it makes terror causing models useless against a horde of 2 Attack/Spear Supported (so 3 attack) waves of warriors. Yes, that's the huge bonus from Mahud. The huge negative is once the leader is killed, they tend to run away even faster than goblins. They cancel each other out nicely. Bairchoro wrote: Quote: Also, as Draugluin said, you have to test for each model before it is moved, and then move them before testing someone else. It's one at a time. This has tactical implications because you won't know if the guy next to you is going to follow you into battle, or run away screaming...you will only know after you've moved if you can trap that troll. If you test everybody first you have more global knowledge of the battlefield as a snapshot in time, which kind of goes against the skirmishy nature of the game. The only issue I have with this is that you make it sound like you do not have to test Broken Courage for models that do not intend to move - which is not the case if they are not engaged in combat. Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that. You can move models in whatever order you like, even if the move is 0". Prior to their move, even if it is 0", you have to take a courage test for being broken. Bairchoro wrote: Like I said, I understand your interpretation and where it comes from - and Quote: this is how we have come to interpret it At the risk of sounding pedantic, that interpretation is not correct. |
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