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New chariot rule?
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=19115		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  New chariot rule?
I can see putting a Khandish King in a chariot, but otherwise chariots don't make much sense to me for the price, at least not in the hands of an F3 Khandish warrior. But what if they got an automatic hit on a charge, just like camels? Camels get an automatic S4 hit, I would think the mass of two horses and the chariot would have the same impact. Would adding this rule finally make chariots worthwhile, or would they become overpowered?
Author:  hithero [ Mon Jul 26, 2010 7:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well they are pathetic, they were pathetic when I playtested them and then they made them worse - go figure :roll: I'd prefer it if they just make them cost less points.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
Right now, with the rules they have I think the are worth about 15-18 points. I think the automatic hit would make then worth their actual points, but not overpowered, I mean the mahud raiders cost almost as much as the chariot, and their only disadvantage is that they cant shoot as far. In fact, I would say that even if you gave the chariot the automatic strength 4 hit if they charge they still wouldn't be as good as the raiders, due to the warrior pride rule of the Mahud and the [word deleted] obstacle rule of the chariots. Not to mention the extra attacks of the Mahud.

In summary, I think it would be a good idea, in fact maybe even 2 strength 3 hits would be better for the 25 points that the chariots do cost.
Author:  Mor-galad of Greenwood [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:27 am ]
Post subject: 
Noddwyr wrote:
In summary, I think it would be a good idea, in fact maybe even 2 strength 3 hits would be better.




...but for 15-18 points!?!?!?! No way. Break the game.
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:40 am ]
Post subject: 
Sorry I meant for the 25 points that they cost right now, or maybe a couple points more. I should have been more clear. I have edited the above to make it more clear.
Author:  CreatureFear [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 4:42 am ]
Post subject: 
I'd prefer it if they had a Trample ability like the Mumak (obviously not S9 though) - I don't think that would break them.
Author:  Hirumith, the Grey Knight [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:36 am ]
Post subject: 
I second CreatureFear - a trample ability (weaker than the Mumak) seems very good both in terms of be powerful enough to make them worthwhile and being "fluffy" or realistic. Make it a considerably weaker trample, though, something more like a Strength 5 hit.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hirumith, the Grey Knight wrote:
I second CreatureFear - a trample ability (weaker than the Mumak) seems very good both in terms of be powerful enough to make them worthwhile and being "fluffy" or realistic. Make it a considerably weaker trample, though, something more like a Strength 5 hit.


I created something like that a while back, here:
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=15087

But it was a single use model. The problem with the trample rules is you stop when your enemy doesn't die, and with < S9 that's going to be 1/2 or more of the time. The you're back to fighting again with an F3 model...
Author:  Highlordell [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
We have to remember that the Mahud Raiers get the automatic Strength 4 hits becuase of the spikes attatched to the camels, not the camels themselves, although I'm sure the same thing could be done to a chariot and it would hit with considerably more force given the extra weight behind it. 8)
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:23 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yeah there was something like that trample rule in the Age of King supplement, but it ended up making the chariots much more expensive. i think it was around 85 points, and every model it hit suffered 2 strikes at the strength of the chariot. The problem is as whafrog already stated, you would have to stop if you dont kill. I believe the Age of Kings Supplement had it as a monstrous mount, therefore it would even knock over cavalry.

I think it really depends on how much you want to change to points value of the chariot. Trample= making it considerably more expensive points wise,whereas if you give it a single automatic hit at strength 5 or 2 at strength 3 while charging then you arent changing the points cost that drastically I think.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:26 pm ]
Post subject: 
Noddwyr wrote:
I think it really depends on how much you want to change to points value of the chariot.


Preferably not at all, just worth their points, like Sentinels or Rangers. It would be nice to be able to field 2 in 500 points (besides heroes), or 4 in 750+, and know they're going to pull their weight.
Author:  Hirumith, the Grey Knight [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:52 am ]
Post subject: 
whafrog wrote:
The problem with the trample rules is you stop when your enemy doesn't die, and with < S9 that's going to be 1/2 or more of the time. The you're back to fighting again with an F3 model...


What about something like this:

"When a chariot moves, if during it's movement it comes into base contact with an opposing model, it may complete the rest of its movement at half-rate if it wishes, and may continue to move into and through other opposing models. Any models that the chariot comes into contact with for the remainder of the move suffer a Strength 5 hit and are knocked down if they are not killed, and placed to the side of the chariot's path (their friends can move to make room for them to fall as the chariot barrels through their ranks). At the end of this move, the charioteer may fight melee as normal, but is never considered trapped as long as he is in the chariot."

Basically along the same lines as a sorcerous blast, although instead of models being flung around into each other, the chariot is racing through them.
Author:  ncea [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:59 am ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I believe the Age of Kings Supplement had it as a monstrous mount, therefore it would even knock over cavalry.


I'm pretty sure it already knocks over cavalry.
Author:  Maermaethor [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:09 am ]
Post subject: 
I think if they got the Mahud rule but it would work like a throwing weapon so you can still charge another guy if you kill whoever you hit, and maybe whoever you charge will automatically get knocked to the ground, but not models that charge in the same turn after you have charged. It would be deadly on the charge, and would benefit you even if your enemy didn't use cavalry. It would still have the F3 though so you would have to be careful when using it. With a Mumak trample rule it would need to be way more expensive, but with a S4 throwing weapon and an auto knock down I think it would be worth 25 points. I mean the auto knock down doesn't help you win the fight, it just means they can't strike back at you if they win.

Just my 2 cents. Oh no, Finland doesn't use 2 cent coins! Never mind....
Author:  Noddwyr [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
I like the sound of that. I think that could work.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:41 pm ]
Post subject: 
I liked Hirumith's rule but 1 attack is pretty feeble for something of that class and 2 for charging is seriously not that impressive. I reckon the chariot should perhaps have 2 charioteers in so thus having 2 attacks and 3 if charging and the king also has an extra charioteer in the back. Or chariots simply need to be much more basic, coming out in multi-plastic sets but being merely being tough cavalry.
Author:  Maermaethor [ Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
hithero wrote:
Well they are pathetic, they were pathetic when I playtested them and then they made them worse - go figure :roll: I'd prefer it if they just make them cost less points.


Do you remember what the rules were before they made them worse?
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