Occasionally some armies have clear advantages over the others, like orcs and goblins with swarming tactics...
but indeed, you can pretty much win with anybody, or at least its theoretically possible
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| Strategic Tactics http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18751 |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 7:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Strategic Tactics |
In an attempt to decide which army is best for SBG, I've been trying to work out all the different ways you can win a battle. So far I've got: Out-class (in close combat) your opposition Out-number your opposition Out-shoot your opposition Out-maneuver opposition Are there any other ways? If you then apply these to an army, and give a rating out of 'Good', 'Moderate', and 'Poor', you get a good idea of how good that army will be. For example, if you try it on Dwarves: Out-class = Good Out-number = Poor Out-shoot = Good/Moderate Out-maneuver = Poor What does everyone else think? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:24 pm ] |
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IMHO it's more about the general than the army. That's one of the things I like about this game is that you can win with pretty much anybody...which is not to say some armies don't have advantages in certain conditions... |
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| Author: | Mouth-of-Sauron [ Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:28 pm ] |
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Occasionally some armies have clear advantages over the others, like orcs and goblins with swarming tactics... but indeed, you can pretty much win with anybody, or at least its theoretically possible
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| Author: | emperor_thompson [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 1:08 am ] |
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Also, some armies are terribly well suited to annihilate other armies, such as an elf bow heavy army against any army with less than 6 defence on an open field. However, change the composition of the army (say, give them some Moronnan orcs), and all of a sudden the advantage becomes much less significant. Not all armies get these options though, so you need to be careful with force selection. |
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:48 am ] |
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Again, it's more about the general than the army. A good general could beat many people with a reasonable army (like not 80% made of heroes.). |
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| Author: | emperor_thompson [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 11:04 am ] |
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Perhaps we have this wrong. Are you thinking of just comparing the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different armies to see which army is best, or which is best for you? Or to see how any particular army is best used so you can develop effective strategies for them? While I agree that it does depend mostly on the skill of the player, I don't think all armies are equal either. Some have very little variety of troops, but similar profiles to other armies who get many choices. If you carefully select an ally who can cover your army's weakness it isn't so important though. The game is reasonably balanced, so the overall effectiveness of an army really depends on the number and variety of choices available to it. |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 4:11 pm ] |
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emperor_thompson wrote: Are you thinking of just comparing the relative strengths and weaknesses of the different armies to see which army is best, or which is best for you? Or to see how any particular army is best used so you can develop effective strategies for them?
The first. Yes, the general is probably more important than the army, but the army is also important. How about rating each army out of five (five being best) on those four ways you can win a battle? I'll start with Gondor: Out-class = 3 Out-shoot = 3 Out-number = 3 Out-maneuver = 4 Anyone else want to continue? I was hoping it would start some discussions... |
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| Author: | Mouth-of-Sauron [ Sun Jun 13, 2010 5:56 pm ] |
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Specifically Dol Guldur, although being a Mordor contingent I find that they are very different from the common Mordor armies. if taken by a 5 points scale I would say. out-class:2 out-shoot: 0 or1? Depending what is the minimum for the scale.... out-number:4 or 3 out-maneuver-5 (Dol Guldurs greatest advantage: Speed) I think that Dol Guldur has some strong elite troops (Giants Spiders, Black Uruks etc.) and strong herose like Spider Queen and Wild Warg Chieftain but since the regular troops fielded with Dol Guldur are regular orcs with bats,spiders and wargs, then they really don´t stand out as being a very Strong army to break or beat. However Dol Guldur armies have enough numbers to mostly out number enemies and surely have a perfect way of reaching enemy very quickly, surrounding it and cutting down it´s spear support. Also a big plus is that they have quite a big list of allies to choose from, should the situation require it.
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| Author: | Dwarf Lord of Ered Luin [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 1:52 pm ] |
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Moria out-class: 1 out-shoot: 2 out-number: 5 out-manoeuvre: 2 out-last: 3 Goblins won't outclass anything but hobbits, an all prowler army could but I'm not taking that into consideration, and the shoot value of most of their warriors is horrendous but the use of a lot of prowlers can make them dangerous at close ranges. Moria goblins also have a slow move rate but their cave dwellers special rule can allow them to easily flank their opponents on certain battle fields. Their defence is average but the inclusion of a shaman paired with durburz (be very careful with him as his stand fast is essential but his courage isn't very impressive) can keep them fighting long after they are broken, with this pair I have hardly ever had a goblin run away but as soon as they are separated you don't have a hope. Their greatest advantage: cheap warriors and loads of them (even prowlers and their heroes are relatively cheap). |
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| Author: | imrail [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:03 pm ] |
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Isn't there a continuous tactical discussion for this? |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm ] |
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imrail wrote: Isn't there a continuous tactical discussion for this?
I think that's a bit different, and I also think it's stopped. Minas Tirith: Outfight = 3-4 Outshoot = 4 Outnumber = 2-3 Outmaneuver 4 Do you think "outlast" could be added? |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 3:51 pm ] |
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Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: out-shoot: 0 or1? Depending what is the minimum for the scale....
1 is minimum. |
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| Author: | Highlordell [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:42 pm ] |
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Harad: Outfight = 4 Outshoot = 4 Outnumber = 4 Outmaneuver = 3 Wow that makes harad looks strong... and some of them could be upped to 5. |
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| Author: | Mouth-of-Sauron [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 8:32 pm ] |
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Actually Harad is very good, it has one of the best shooters in the game (add to them The Betreyer special rule) and VOLA Brilliant, also harad has some very decent elites... and herose to fear, so harad is very very good (If I would to start SBG right now with the current knowledge I have, I would have started with a Harad army)
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| Author: | TheEggman [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:35 pm ] |
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Highlordell wrote: Harad:
Outfight = 4 Outshoot = 4 Outnumber = 4 Outmaneuver = 3 Wow that makes harad looks strong... and some of them could be upped to 5. Yeah, Harad is stacked... only thing is, you can't really do all at once.  Only thing is, if you added Outlast, it might only be a 2-3, max.
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| Author: | Mor-galad of Greenwood [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 11:53 pm ] |
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Woodland Realms Class=3 (Win more fights) Shoot=5 (best bows in the game) (Thranduil hits on a 2+!) Number=1 (High average points cost) Maneuver=4 (Woodland Creature, Fleetfoot) Outlast=5 (Pass courage tests) ALL @ THE SAME TIME! |
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| Author: | imrail [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:15 am ] |
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Grey Company Class= 4 (Better than most enemys, high fight value) Shoot=5 ( Low shoot value, lot's of bows!) Number= 4 (Warriors are quite cheap, but you need Rangers of the North) Maneuver= 3 (average, although low movement if you want to shoot a lot) Outlast= (3 average courage value) Grey company.. need I say more? They are great with a good general. Cheap warriors, quite cheap heroes. |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:25 pm ] |
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Highlordell wrote: Harad:
Outfight = 4 Outshoot = 4 Outnumber = 4 Outmaneuver = 3 I disagree: Outfight = 3 (low defence) Outshoot = 4 Outnumber = 4 Outmaneuver = 5 (cheap and wide range of cavalry) |
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| Author: | spuds4ever [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:43 pm ] |
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I think variety should be added as that can play a major part on the army's performance. Rivendell: Outfight:4 (still only 5+ to wound) Outshoot:5 Outnumber:1 Outmanouvere:2 (comes with low outnumber.) Variety:1 |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:41 pm ] |
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For Rivendell, I would boost Outfight and Outmaneuver by one. |
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