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Sillmarrillion Characters for Good
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=12797		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  pwner jaleno [ Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Sillmarrillion Characters for Good
Hi, Im working on the Sillmarrillion sourcebook (unoficial) and would like some comments on the profiles of my good heroes. Thanks.

Turin Turambar 190 points
F 5/4+ S 4 D 5 A 3 W 3 C 6 M 3* W 3 F 3
Wargear
Turin wears armor and wields a sword. He may have the following for the points cost listed:
Gurthang-----------------------75
Sheild---------------------------5
Bow-----------------------------5

Special Rules:
Gurthang: when Turin has the sword he wounds anything on a 4+ no matter what their defense is.
Dragon slayer: If Turin is in combat with either a fell beast or a dragon or a balrog he may re-roll all rolls to wound

Earendil 90 points
F 4 S 4 D 5 A 2 W 2 C 5 M 2 W 2 F 2
Wargear:
Earendil carries a sword and has normal armour. At extra cost he may have
Shield------------------------5
Special rules:
Counted among the Valar: if Earendil dies roll a dice. On a 5+ he is left on the table with all his wounds but no fate.

Ewling 100 points. This profile represents Elwing in her bird form.
F 5 S 5 D 6 A 2 W 2 C 5 M 1 W 4 F 1
Wargear :
Elwing has claws and talons

Special rules:
Silmarrillion: the sillmarilion allows Ewing to cast Natures wrath once per turn at a 3+ to cast.

Fingolfin 300 points
F 9 S 5 D 8 A 3 W 3 C 6 M 3 W 3 F 3

Fingolfin wields a sword, a fine shield, the Horn of Fingolfin, and wears finely crafted heavy armour. He may also have the following:
Special Rules:
High King of the Elves: Fingolfin's standfast is 12" instead of 6"
Terror: see main rules manuel for details
The Horn of Fingolfin: see Horn of Gondor
Crstal Shield: this shield shines in the light of the sun. All models within 6” count as being within range of a banner

Feanor 80 points
F 6 S 4 D 7 A 2 W 2 C 5 M 3 W 2 F 2
Wargear:
Feanor has a Hammer (elven blade) and finely crafted mithril armour He may have a
Sheild-------------------------------5 points

Special rules
Master of the Fires of the Forge: If Feanor is included in the force up to 10 models may be given heavy armour for only 5 points instead of the usual 10

Beleg 90 points
F 6/2+ S 4 D 5 A 2 W 2 C 5 M 3 W 3 F 3
Wargear:
Beleg has an elf bow and a sword

Special rules:
Expert Shot
One with Nature


Much Obliged
Pwner
Author:  WanderingDunedain [ Sat Jun 21, 2008 6:35 am ]
Post subject: 
maby you should broaden the dragon slayer rule to re roll wounds on monsterouse creatures
Author:  The Ironfoot [ Sat Jun 21, 2008 10:23 am ]
Post subject: 
didn't Turin have a heirloom from his line... a dragon helmet or something?

the banner: I should say all friendly models (not all models)

i like the heavy armour rule, but that's only cheap for heroes, mabye you should also add a cheap or free option for normal warriors (there cost is usually 2 points for h. armour.)
Author:  Adanedhel [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:39 pm ]
Post subject: 
@ Ironfoot, yes Turin had the dragon helmet of Dor lomin but only at the time he didn't yet have Gurthang, so he should only be able to have one of the 2
@pwner jaleno, basicly your Turin is an Aragorn but 15 points more expensive with -1F and your dragon special rule, perhaps you could try to find an better purpose for Gurthang like,
Gurthang: When Turin fights with this weapon and wins the fight he can choose to either deliver 3 blows with +1 to wound or deliver 1 attack as usual but this one causes drain soul
Currently I'm working on another version of Turin, namely the one that stands beside Tulkas during Dagor Dagorath and I use this special rule for Gurthang, I only need to find out where that points calculator stands on the web.
For the rest a very neat job,
well done
Author:  Corsair [ Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
you could make it into many things:

drain soul ability is good

narsil is useful

make it like anduril flame of the west

armour of gondolin (more defensive than offensive)

+2 on wound chart

morgul blade

any of those i think would be good
Author:  Adanedhel [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 10:06 am ]
Post subject: 
The problem I meant was that his Turin resembles Aragorn way to much, I believe he must be a special character, I mean Tolkien made him one of the most lifereal characters, such one deserves an one profile and not one directly derived from another even if that one is the heir of Isildur.
Therefore I would not give Gurthang the Anduril special rules
Author:  Corsair [ Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:00 pm ]
Post subject: 
Fair enough I guess...
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 11:45 am ]
Post subject: 
I haven´t read the book but these rules seem good and fine by me.. :roll:

Mostly I liked the Fingolfin for 300 points !!! :roll:
Author:  joris267 [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 6:09 pm ]
Post subject: 
in my oppinion turin should be stronger and Fingolfin cheaper. but further is it great.
Author:  whafrog [ Wed Jun 25, 2008 7:35 pm ]
Post subject: 
Everybody but Fingolfin seems underpowered to me, but I'm starting to realize this game is not really set up to handle such powerful characters and First Age scenarios. Any First Age Elf would make Legolas look like a squeaking puppy.

If you *really* wanted to go with the literature, your basic Edain would have stats like a Ranger of the North, maybe even 2 attacks. Even the average normal Human warrior would be a match for a couple of Orcs.

Your basic Sindar would be something like:
F/S S D A W C M W F
5/3+ 3 3 2 2 5 1 1 1
Expert shot

Your basic Noldor would be:
F/S S D A W C M W F
6/3+ 4 3 2 2 6 1 2 1
Nature's Wrath 3+

Their gear would be top notch, with Noldor armour the equivalent of Dwarf Armour: light, heavy and mithril equivalents would be available. Noldor weapons would get +1 to wound any goblin, orc or troll.

This would be slightly more true to the literature (where Elves fought Balrogs and won), but would be unplayable. You couldn't afford to field enough Elves to prevent being swarmed by Morgoth's Filth.

In short, after seeing about a hundred attempts to do First Age stuff, the game mechanics aren't capable of handling it.
Author:  The_Dúnadan [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:47 am ]
Post subject: 
I am a fan of this idea. I might even start making some for myself =3
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Loved the Silmarillion book. Wished GW would get the rights to it. There are so many characters though that I can't remember them off the top of my head that I would love to see be made.

Feanor and his 7 sons I thinks
Tuor, Turin, Hurin, Huor
That dwarf king and his company that took down a dragon in the battle of unumbered tears
Beren
Author:  Haldir glory [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:44 am ]
Post subject: 
nice work
Author:  Hirumith, the Grey Knight [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:02 pm ]
Post subject: 
I'm sort of at the opposite end of the spectrum as whafrog - I think that the Silmarillion is totally doable and the characters really shouldn't have god-like stats.

Yes, the Edain and the Noldor were incredibly powerful, but we're often given similar accounts of men and elves in later ages as well (for instance, at the battle of the Gladden Fields the Gondorians were taking six orcs for every one of them that fell). The sorts of numbers we're seeing in these stories just don't translate directly into game terms, so keep that in mind.

We already have six 1st Age elves in the game, which you can kind of use as guidelines when developing your own characters:
Galadriel
Celeborn
Elrond
Gil-Galad
Glorfindel
Cirdan
Thranduil and Erestor are possibly 1st Age elves as well, since we really don't know how old they are.

So, at least by the game conventions, they're not all super-powered beings that can take out any and all comers. Most of them are quite powerful, but still reasonably balanced, heroes.

Anyways, on to the profiles themselves!

Turin:

Like Adenedhel I think he deserves more than an Aragorn copy-paste with slight modifications. I wrote a profile for Turin as well, here are some of my ideas:

Gurthang was like the King of the Dead's sword - 1 successful wound will kill any opponent. If taking this route, I would drop his attacks to just 2.

I would also add the Dragon-Helm to his wargear options, since it's such a cool object and he did have it at the same time as Anglachel (which was the name for Gurthang before being reforged), and maybe even past that to when he had Gurthang.

I feel like it would be interesting to add the Curse of Morgoth somehow - I made it so that his Fate rolls are only successful on a 5+.

Fingolfin:

He seems overpriced, given the profile. Compare him with Glorfindel, for instance. He's basically being charged 160 points (!) for increased Fight, Strength, and Defense, 12" Stand Fast, the Horn, and the Shield. In turn, he loses 1 point of Courage. When you take into account that most stats are worth about 5 points apiece for heroes, he should only be 15 points more for his increased statline, and then whatever you would charge him for the other goodies (12" Stand Fast, Horn, & Shield). To me, 145 points seems like too much, even for all of those. Personally, I would probably bring him down closer to 200-230ish.

Your stats look good, I might even suggest bumping his Attacks and Might up to 4, though (that would be an extra 10-15 points, probably). I also think it would be interesting to give him some sort of "dodge" type of save, since he was so quick and danced around Morgoth's blows. Maybe a 6+ save against any melee wounds, before Fate is rolled?

Feanor:

Conversely, Feanor seems underpriced to me. I would have him at 90, at least, I think. To solve any issues with the "Master of the Forge" rule, just say that up to 10 models in the army can purchase heavy armor at half price (so 1 for warriors instead of the normal 2, and 5 for heroes instead of the normal 10).

To me, the rest look good!
Author:  Anduril Blade of Kings [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:57 pm ]
Post subject: 
Guys, check the dates before posting! The last post was over two years ago! :no:
Author:  Hirumith, the Grey Knight [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hahaha, woops! sorry 'bout that, just saw that the last few were today, my bad.
Author:  Sacrilege83 [ Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
Anduril Blade of Kings wrote:
Guys, check the dates before posting! The last post was over two years ago! :no:

No crime in necro posting. If a topic is good and just happens to be lost and then found, why not continue on the discussion instead of creating another thread of the same topic?
Author:  ncea [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:48 am ]
Post subject: 
Omg i was reading this topic and i didn't even notice it was necromanced lol! The reason i didnt think it was is because everyone who has posted still goes on this site(most of the time).

I sort of agree with Whafrog... But why dont you just make a whole new SBG and make it so only 1st age armies can fight with other first age armies?
Author:  Lord Hurin [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
ncea wrote:
I sort of agree with Whafrog... But why dont you just make a whole new SBG and make it so only 1st age armies can fight with other first age armies?


Because Orcs still suck. When you get 8 or 10 Orcs for every Elf, Good will rarely, if ever, win a game. The SBG is tailored to favour numbers over skill.
Author:  whafrog [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
I was thinking about doop dude's modified combat rules in this thread:

http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=18262

...where you add the Fight score of everyone in the fight to your dice roll. That could help change the "quantity vs quality" equation, but I'm not sure how you'd change the point costs to reflect it.

There are a few problems with the rule though: it might be fine for warrior vs warrior, such as goblins vs elves, where the elves should statistically be able to take on 2+ goblins, but when you look at 2 or 3 elves vs a cave troll, the cave troll is no longer worth those 80 points. Also, each warrior still has only 1 wound, so shooting takes on even more importance and power than it currently does.

But if those issues could be resolved it might make 1st age profiles possible.
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