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| Angmar vs Mordor http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=34611 |
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| Author: | Salattu [ Sat Jun 26, 2021 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Angmar vs Mordor |
If these factions face each others, which one will most likely win? Angmar has stuff like warg chieftan and troll chief, and a couple of nazguls, mordor has shelob, nazguls and trolls. But big difference is Angmar has barrow-wights and terror army. Mordor can pretty much counter the terror by using a shaman. But barrow-wights are very powerful cheap hero and especaally now when sap will is nerfed can mordor do anything about them? So far angmar seems to have a slight edge in the battle, but mordor also has more elite units at its disposal, such as morannon orcs, which should win normal orcs relatively easily?!? (Unless a shade turns the tide of battle?) And from here to a bit different point of view: If a player wants to use normal orc warriors, is Angmar always better than Mordor considering that Mordor has a lot of elite troops at its disposal. Would playing mordor and using plain orc warriors somehow undermine the streenghts of mordor which basically seems to be stronger breed of orcs, lots of magic, fury and some hard-hitting monsters. |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sat Jun 26, 2021 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Angmar vs Mordor |
I can't answer which one would win for a few reasons. First, the game is really balanced, one scenario benefits one army, another scenario benefits the other army. Second, there's so much overlap between Mordor and Angmar, they both ultimately like to use a combination of numbers, magic, and monsters. Third, Mordor is so diverse, no two Mordor armies are the same. Instead, I'll do my best to answer "Which army should I play?". I see Angmar as more of a control army that can manipulate your opponent's army, then hit as soon as it's weak. Mordor has access to all the Nazgul, but the ones that Angmar has access to, combined with everything else in the army, make for a really manipulative army. Both The Tainted and the Dwimmerlaik can shut down enemy heroes with their special rules, before using magic, then your Barrow Wights come in. In my experience, Paralyze is such a powerful spell that you don't actually have to cast it, your opponent will be afraid and always stay out of your Barrow Wights' casting range. Once you do cast it, dead hero. Combine that with the magical prowess of the Witch King (or the other two Nazgul) and your Spectres, you have so many ways to dominate how your opponent moves. Then throw in a Shade, which makes Orcs quite a decent fighting unit, Shade+Banner+Picks, your Orcs are now quite likely to win fights and kill stuff. Cave Trolls are great because they have Burly, which Mordor Trolls don't. Buhrdur and Wild Warg Chieftains are always going to kill stuff. I don't think any hero on the Mordor list can deal quite as much damage as Gulavhar, though you do have to protect him and be very careful with him. All told, Angmar is a really strong army, it's one of my favourites, and I think it's currently very popular among the most competitive players. For Mordor, you have a lot more options that are very good value. Things like Troll Chieftains, Shagrat, Goroth, Black Numenorean Marshalls, they're just strong combat heroes that don't cost too much. No-name Ringwraiths have Heroic March while also being a cheap magic outlet. Kardush is a rechargeable Fury battery who can dish out cheap damage spells. You have a War Beast, you have Siege Weapons, you have more magic users than the White Council, you have a number of really cheap 3 Might heroes, , Shelob deserves her own category. I love and hate introducing someone to Mordor because there's so much to talk about. Mordor's warriors choices are really well balanced, everything has a role, nothing is an obvious yes. Morannon Orcs are what they are, they're hard to kill and can kill stuff when they win fights, but FV3 means they struggle to win fights. I take Orc Warriors in a Mordor list if I want spearmen with bows. Black Numenoreans are hard to kill, good at winning fights, but struggle to kill stuff; they do well with Morannon Orc Spears. Black Guard do well with all of the above, but they're expensive. Morgul Stalkers are lots of fun, basically Hunter Orcs but with Stalk Unseen, I'd like to pair them with Gothmog and see what that does for them. Orc Trackers are fun, I always try to fit them into my armies. Basically, I think Angmar is much better at serving a very specific style of play, but Mordor can support just about any style of play. It depends what you want to do. So, Salattu, I'll ask you: what makes you like Mordor and Angmar? |
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| Author: | Salattu [ Mon Jun 28, 2021 2:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Angmar vs Mordor |
Thank you mr.dude for always giving so nice and long answers! What do i like about angmar and mordor? First, i like normal orc warriors. They are such a nice rugged and beastly group. Maybe it has some kind of rolegaming aspect to be the "big guy" who orcs fear and respect enough to stop their tribe wars and to be used in war. Sharkey's ruffians have a bit similar theme. Second, i like the ringwraiths. Rings of power are a central part of LOTR lore, giving Sauron much more power to control the physical world. Also it is interesting how ringwraiths are a combination of their own personality and Sauron's corruption. Third, i like monster too, of course! But my problem may be that i prefer very big monsters such as balrog, watcher in the water and dragon, over small ones. Shelob is a lovely looking thingy though, so i like her too. Trolls are ok, but they aren't to me a centerpiece rly. So, what should i conclude about this? For me, if i play angmar, i would do it for the cool ghost theme. The Witch King on horse, 1 shade, 2 barrowwights, 50 orcs and 2 banners would be a 700p army. I think it is a nice theme, and quite a powerful army, even though it a bit lacks the wow-effect of moria having those biiig beasts. Mordor on the other hand has ringwraiths and shelob. Just a problem is they don't really support each other that well. Like ok i could take a fellbeast and the shelob, orc taskmaster, kardush firecaller, 15 warg riders, 24 orc warriors, a banner. That would do 694 points. But the army seriously lacks power compared to the angmar alternative. So yea if i want to make a powerful mordor army it cannot be simply a blend of everything, it must have a proper theme. The cirith ungol legend edition is ok except that it lacks the ringwraiths. Etc i hope u understand how my thinking goes. With mordor it is same time stimulating and frustrating to have so many different options! With moria it is easier, when u pick something like balrog, dragon or watcher, and army is build around that. One more option i can see is combining moria and mordor somehow. Would be cool to have a dragon and a ringwraith in same army, or maybe the watcher and a ringwraith, but sadly the dragon seems to be simply too expensive to do the job properly especially nowadays when it is nomore part of mordor, and also watcher is not a unit that can lead and to ally moria should take durburz and watcher and then ally a ringwraith. But maybe still doable. Also, in cirith ungol legion, shelob is almost as tough as the dragon, at least in ideal situation, so that seems like a fun list top, but lacks the ringwraiths! |
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| Author: | mr. dude [ Sun Jul 04, 2021 5:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Angmar vs Mordor |
For me, the way I like to build armies when I'm in the same position as you ("I like this, this, and this. Now what?") is to really focus on the things I like, ask myself what kind of support they need to perform like I want them to, and build the army that way. So, you like Orc Warriors, Ringwraiths, and biiig monsters. Great, build around that! If it's Angmar, the cool ghost theme you talk about is a good way to go. Banner and Shade help support your Orcs and make them into much better fighters (by my quick math, it looks like you're looking at Orcs without equipment. Don't forget to give them shields and/or spears), and Barrow Wights make them better at killing heroes. Angmar's biggest monsters are the Witch King on Fellbeast and Gulavhar, if those are fun for you then you can work them into an army list. I've definitely taken both in 800 point games, lots of fun! Basically what I do is "I know I want this army to have Shelob and Black Guard of Barad Dur. Okay, what do Black Guard need to work well? A Banner, a secondary distraction so they're not outnumbered. Cool, what's that distraction? Great Beast of Gorgoroth? What does the army look like if I take one of those? Okay now I need two heroes to manage all of that, Dark Marshall and Shagrat? But now my army is low on Might! Okay, if I drop the banner, can I squeeze in one Captain?" It's a lot of figuring out what you think the army is missing, visualizing how you want it to play, and trial-and-error to get it where you want it to be. So, going back to what you want out of Mordor: Orcs, Ringwraiths, big monsters, Shelob is acceptable. I like to pick all the things I know I want first. So if your warrior choice is Orc Warriors, pick your favourite Ringwraith (or Ringwraiths), pick your favourite monster. You can definitely build a Mordor army around Orc Warriors, give them a Banner and a Shaman (or Kardush) to support them, and maybe a Drummer for mobility? As for monsters, you're right that Mordor doesn't have Moria's monster selection, Mordor is more about solid overall monsters, like the Troll Chieftain, or I really enjoy the Great Beast of Gorgoroth. They're not going to dominate the game on their own, but they're a great asset to your army. Alternatively, Ringwraiths on Fellbeast are always a fun time. From there, is the army missing something? Try it out, see where you're having difficulties, address them, try again, and on and on. Based on that though, it sounds like Angmar is closer to your preferences just based on Gulavhar being a centrepiece monster. The nice thing is that there's so much overlap between Angmar and Mordor that you can switch around and have fairly different armies using a lot of the same models. |
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