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| Easterlings 700 pts http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=33788 |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Easterlings 700 pts |
One of the armies that, in my opinion, did see some interesting changes is the Easterling Horde. Here are two lists I'd consider giving a go: Army List 1: Amdur, Lord of the Blades on armoured horse 5 Black Dragon Kataphrakts Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 5 Black Dragon Kataphrakts Easterling Captain with shield 3 Easterling Black Dragons with shields 8 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields Easterling Captain with shield 3 Easterling Black Dragons with shields 8 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields Army List 2: Amdur, Lord of the Blades on armoured horse 6 Black Dragon Kataphrakts Easterling Captain with shield 3 Easterling Black Dragons with shields 8 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields Easterling Captain with shield 3 Easterling Black Dragons with shields 8 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields Khandish Chieftain on Khandish Chariot 2 Khandish Charioteers So, the first list is a straightforward hammer and anvil list with a F4 phalanx, supported by two cavalry warbands who pack the true punch with their heroes. The second list adds in some chariots at the cost of a cavalry warband. With this list, I'm considering to use the chariots almost in the same way the British used their infantry tanks during WW2. I'd have them together with my phalanx, giving some width against most spear walls to make full use of the two supporting pikemen in the phalanx, and creating breaches in their lines. Meanwhile, Amdur and the kataphrakts can be used to flank their army. Which of these two lists do you guys think is better? Oh, and how effective do you think the chariot strategy would be? |
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| Author: | T Andrion [ Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Those look like interesting lists. Although I have very little competitive experience myself I have played some games with a phalanx formation in the old rules and several games with a full kataphrakt list (up to 500 points) in the new edition. Seeing how both lists have no bows I'd say you are weak to bow heavy lists (I have to play a lot against an all throwing spear riders of rohan list a lot) and I woulldn't know how to answer that with both lists. I also expect that with just 4 units wide it is really hard to stall. I used to play 5 swords and 6 pikes and just let the unsupported swords shield. In that way you might be able to stall longer for your kataphrakts to finish. Mounted Amdûr is really good and a threat to most heroes. Having him and a dragon knight allows you to hunt down 2 heroes at once. Therefore, in list two I would suggest swapping in one captain for a dragon knigt because of the extra attack, higher fight and ability to shield. The gleaming horde speacial rule of the kataphrakts really helps with their weakness to ranged attacks as even their horses take 6's to wound from strength 2 bows. At 700 pts you maybe could go for an all mounted list with amdur, dragon knight, war priest (against heavy armoured units) and a drummer and banner, or amdur, dragon knight, drummer and the khandish king with a couple of chariots. I would prefer the king of a chieftain since the 3 attacks will give you 3 lethal units and the extra defence helps with the weakness against arrow fire. On top of that he has a large range banner wich is quite helpful since your chariots are pretty weak if they lose fights. |
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| Author: | McGarnacle [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Yay, Easterlings! I agree with T Andrion, you should probably bring more troops. I would consider taking maybe 4-5 kataphrakts and making the rest infantry, not necessarily Black Dragons (if you do bring Black Dragons, they should be your back line). The thing with Easterlings is your troops will never kill anything, so they need to support your heroes. Kataphrakts are nice because they give your mounted heroes a better defense, but a good solid block of infantry should be your mainstay. As for the heroes, Amdur is an excellent choice. Not sure about the Captains and Dragon Knight, though. I would consider a War Priest to bladewrath your heroes and definitely Khamul. Having two heroes with Heroic Challenge I think will be key. Also, two damage-dealers is a must, so either Khamul or the Dragon Knight are a must-have. Here is what I would do for 700pts. Warband 1 15/15 Khamûl the Easterling with armoured horse; 6 Easterling Warrior with Shield; 6 Black Dragon Warrior with Pike; Shield; 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakt ---- Warband 2 15/15 Amdûr, Lord of Blades with armoured horse; 6 Easterling Warrior with Shield; 6 Black Dragon Warrior with Pike; Shield; 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakt ---- Warband 3 6/12 Easterling War Priest 6 Easterling Warrior with Bow; ---- You still have some Kataphrakts, but your front line is now 12 models long. Also, you've got shooting, two combat heroes and a supporting caster. Good luck, Easterlings are a lot of fun, and finally seem competitive. |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Thanks for all the advice! First of all, I really like the idea of using the warriors on the flanks to shield, so thanks for that tip. Secondly, I have actually never considered how much potential bringing a war priest has for your army. Getting out 3 bladewraths in a game does sound quite powerful when you consider the amount of attacks my heroes bring to the field. concerning the bow heavy lists, I get your point. However, I'd personally say that the best response is to get my mounted heavy hitters in as fast as possible. I might be wrong on this one, but wouldn't bringing 6 archers be a bit of a waste? They do not pose enough of a threat to force opponents to come to me, while they will also get outshot by most bow heavy lists. I could be wrong on this one though. So, adding up all your advice I came up with the following list: Warband 1: Amdur, Lord of the Blades on armoured horse 6 Easterling Warriors with shields 8 Easterling Black Dragons with pikes and shields Warband 2: Easterling War Priest 6 Easterling Warriors with shields 5 Easterling Black Dragons with pikes and shields Warband 3: Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakts Warband 4: Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakts This list does leave out Khamul, but instead brings 3 combat heroes supported by a war priest. I think I'll have a go at building a full cavalry list this weekend. |
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| Author: | LordElrond [ Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
This last list looks very good. You might struggle to deal with top tier characters such as Sauron, Gil-galad or the Balrog, but striking up and hoping will have to do. Personally, I'm not sure I'd want the war priest, and would prefer a captain, because your army already has a decent courage and defence, and he would bring heroic march into your force, which could be important to allow the infantry to keep up with the cavalry in some cases. Additionally, he provides a potentially useful roadblock for mosy enemy combat heroes, as D7 (with a shield) means they'll be needing 6s to wound him. And of course he brings even more combat ability to the table. As for the warpriest, it's his only having 3 will that is his let down. If you want to cast fury, then you can chuck one die at it and then if it fails, you can try again. If you want to channel it and gain the 6+ save, you'll want to use 2 will for the best chance of casting, but then you can't cast bladewrath at all without fury disappearing, as you'll go down to 0 will. Alternatively, you can save all 3 of his will for casting bladewrath, but if you're taking him merely for this, then frankly I think a captain, even on foot, will be more effective and tactically useful as well. Just something to think about, although admittedly the courage auto-pass is useful |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Sun Oct 07, 2018 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
I get what you mean. The idea behind the War Priest, though, was to expand at what the list is already good at: hero killing. I think that, against the bigger heroes you name, one channeled bladewrath might just be what I need to make sure that, during that one turn when I have the chance of beating them, finish them off in in one go. Next to that, it would really help with getting down monsters. What I could instead also do is get rid of both a dragon knight and the warpriest in exchange for Khamul. That way I can bring some magic tricks to the table (maybe even more useful for dispatching heroes). Would it be worth the removal of a dragon knight though? |
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| Author: | Cave Dragon [ Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Rownage wrote: Thanks for all the advice! First of all, I really like the idea of using the warriors on the flanks to shield, so thanks for that tip. Secondly, I have actually never considered how much potential bringing a war priest has for your army. Getting out 3 bladewraths in a game does sound quite powerful when you consider the amount of attacks my heroes bring to the field. concerning the bow heavy lists, I get your point. However, I'd personally say that the best response is to get my mounted heavy hitters in as fast as possible. I might be wrong on this one, but wouldn't bringing 6 archers be a bit of a waste? They do not pose enough of a threat to force opponents to come to me, while they will also get outshot by most bow heavy lists. I could be wrong on this one though. So, adding up all your advice I came up with the following list: Warband 1: Amdur, Lord of the Blades on armoured horse 6 Easterling Warriors with shields 8 Easterling Black Dragons with pikes and shields Warband 2: Easterling War Priest 6 Easterling Warriors with shields 5 Easterling Black Dragons with pikes and shields Warband 3: Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakts Warband 4: Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 3 Black Dragon Kataphrakts This list does leave out Khamul, but instead brings 3 combat heroes supported by a war priest. I think I'll have a go at building a full cavalry list this weekend. I feel like Kamul is needed should you meet any hero of legend. Sack some heroes/cavalry maybe. Also, I would consider archers, elves would massacre you right about now. Otherwise nice list. |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
How about this list: Khamul the Easterling on armoured horse 5 Easterling Warriors with shields 3 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields 5 Black Dragon Warriors with pikes and shields Amdur, Lord of the Blades on armoured horse 5 Easterling Warriors with shields 3 Easterling Warriors with pikes and shields 5 Black Dragon Warriors with pikes and shields Easterling Dragon Knight on armoured horse 6 Black Dragon Kataphrakts In order to get some bows in I could also exchange the last warband with a Khandish Chieftain on chariot and 7 Khandish horsemen. In that case I'd normally prefer to go for a Khandish King instead of the Chieftain, but I'm afraid that will bring my numbers down too much. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Correct me if I am wrong, but can you not still take bows and pikes with no negative side-effect? Could you not just swap the shields on your six easterlings with pike and shield for bows and be sitting pretty? |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Wan Shi Tong wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but can you not still take bows and pikes with no negative side-effect? Could you not just swap the shields on your six easterlings with pike and shield for bows and be sitting pretty? EDIT: Nope, that's not possible. The new rules state that using pikes in combination with bows, shields or crossbows will result in a -1 to your duel roll. Though the phalanx rule removes the penalty when using shields, it does not discuss the use of bows, meaning they will result in a -1. |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
How irritating to find out that is true. |
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| Author: | John Wayne [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Hey. I thought the new rules say only the Dragon knight can lead and have black dragons now. No other warbands are allowed them. |
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| Author: | Rownage [ Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
John Wayne wrote: Hey. I thought the new rules say only the Dragon knight can lead and have black dragons now. No other warbands are allowed them. Nope, the rules state that Dragon Knights may only lead Black Dragons, but not the other way around. |
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| Author: | Alhvar [ Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
I am curious about your thoughts on black dragon upgrades. The concensus seems to be that the upgrade should only be used for the back (third) row of infantery, but for all of the cavalery? |
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| Author: | LordElrond [ Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Yh that's right. That way you get maximum use out of minimum cost. You need to maximise efficiency with these cos the upgrade is 2pts each, and the courage that you're paying for is irrelevant if you're also bringing a war priest, or to a certain extent even if you just have Khamul and/or Amdur, who are high c models. This then means that ur phalanx will have it and at the least risk, being on the back row, so you will be able to keep the f even if the front 2 ranks die. With the new rules update stopping spearmen from being able to support cavalry, it's more important than ever for ur cav to have the upgrade, since they're your fragile hard hitters, and you need them to be winning combats and then killing stuff. |
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| Author: | Alhvar [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
Rownage wrote: Wan Shi Tong wrote: Correct me if I am wrong, but can you not still take bows and pikes with no negative side-effect? Could you not just swap the shields on your six easterlings with pike and shield for bows and be sitting pretty? EDIT: Nope, that's not possible. The new rules state that using pikes in combination with bows, shields or crossbows will result in a -1 to your duel roll. Though the phalanx rule removes the penalty when using shields, it does not discuss the use of bows, meaning they will result in a -1. I am curious, is the option to use a pike-bow combination on the middle row really such a bad idea? The archers are safe and are right where you want them. Is there no way that the benefits could outweight the -1 penalty? |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Easterlings 700 pts |
I guess we would have to test it to see. It might be worth it for a Tercio style formation. |
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