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400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=32752		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Sephalo [ Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:01 pm ]
Post subject:  400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
I was wondering about Moria army building and I'm having doubts on what's the best way to go.

Maybe someone here would like to help me out on creating 2 armylists, both with a completely different flavour. Maybe something like a massing army and one that uses a bit more expensive characters. And ofc, with info about what would be the best of those 2. ;)

As for massing I'm not sure if I've got enough foot warriors for a 400p game.

And as a personal thing I'd love to be able to use Warg Marauders since they're my best painted of the armylist. Are they good enough for a small 400v400 game?

I've got:
1x Durburz
1x Druzhag
1x Captain with Shield
1x Captain with Bow
2x Shaman

12x Warrior with Shield
12x Warrior with Spear
12x Warrior with Bow
1x Two Drummers + Drum
4x Warg Marauder
2x Wild Wargs
3x Prowler (+ 2H)
2x Giant Spider
1x Cave Troll with Spear
1x Cave Troll with Hammer
Author:  Ring_of_Gyges [ Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
A captain with a shield and 12 Moria goblins comes to exactly 100pts, so a horde at 400pts could be 4 warbands and 52 models. That is a metric ton of models at 400pts, but you're a bit short of that.

For a horde I'd suggest:

Durburz w/ 10 goblins + Cave Troll
Shaman w/ 12 goblins
Shaman w/ 12 goblins

If you're keen on the Warg Riders, I'd swap out the troll and a couple goblins for a trio of riders.
Author:  Sephalo [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Thanks!

And what about the Cave Troll. Is it worth it to give him a chain or spear?
Author:  Galanur [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Chain it´s not worth it....only thematic like. Its a S4 throwing weapon that although the S value is not bad, we´re talking this on a orc shooting value model, only give him if you have the points for it.

The spear allows the troll to support a model. Seems almost worthless but can be situational usefull, granting for example one of your heroes a support F6 S6 A.

My personnal experience is that if you go Moria goblins at 400pts, either if you pick goblins you amass em or go home. This got a few exceptions of curse, like if you fill up shamans amongst their ranks.

In small games however, big nasty heroes have a larger impact, due to the fact that you have to face less models that with each kill they make, it gives a bigger impact to your army.
Author:  Valadorn [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Galanur wrote:

In small games however, big nasty heroes have a larger impact, due to the fact that you have to face less models that with each kill they make, it gives a bigger impact to your army.


Well said. This is true for the impact of the monsters too.
I would suggest to take the troll if you go for the horde without taking any elite models.
Author:  Ring_of_Gyges [ Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
The troll chain is pretty worthless. Your troll should always be moving, either charging or getting into position to charge, so he's hitting with that chain on a 6. At S4 he's wounding most troops on a 5 or 6, so best case scenario you're looking at one wound per every 18 charges? If he lives through a 36 round game he might kill something. Maybe. I don't think I've ever seen a 36 round game. It certainly isn't worth 5pts, it probably isn't worth 1pt.

The spear is likewise pretty worthless. If your 81pt model is providing spear support, something has gone very wrong with your plan. The troll should be up front using his 3 attacks, barging, hurling, and generally smashing people. If you have one point left over when making your army you might as well, but I'm struggling to imagine the circumstance when you don't want the troll stuck in.
Author:  Men are weak [ Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Agree with most posts on this thread, and that the Troll chain is not worth it. If they ever fix the shooting rules to allow throwing weapons to not suffer the -1 penalty for movement, it might be worth it, but I'd have to work the numbers. It still might not be worth 5 points.

The one change I'd make to your force though is to get your Goblin Prowlers into the force. If you're going to play a Moria horde, these need to be in the force, as the whole point is to swarm enemies and trap them with numbers, which is where the Prowlers really shine. +1 to wound trapped enemies, and when you toss in the ability to Piercing Strike, he's wounding D6 on 3s or 4s, depending on the Str increase roll.
Author:  Sephalo [ Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Thanks for the advice!

Just wondering.

2 Shamans or 1 Shaman in a 400p game?
Author:  Men are weak [ Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
I'd go with 2, as Ring of Gyges recommends. The shaman are there to lead troops and cast Fury. Fury is an absolute must for a Goblin force (and really most evil forces). On turn 1, they're both casting channeled Fury. Having 2 shamen just covers more of your units.
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Example army:

Groblog
5 Moria Goblins w shields
5 Moria Goblins w spears
Cave Troll

Moria Goblin Shaman
5 Moria Goblins w shields
5 Moria Goblins w spears
2 Moria Prowlers w shields or 2-handed weapons

Moria Goblin Shaman
5 Moria Goblins w shields
5 Moria Goblins w spears
1 Moria Prowlers w shield or 2-handed weapon

Comes to 399 pts, leaving 1 pt to give the Troll a spear if you want.
Author:  Sephalo [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Thanks for the help!
I'll try to go by that list, but I just have to get myself Groblog first... And grrrrrr, he's so expensive! :(

For when I really want to use Warg Marauders I'm going to stick with what Galanur told me. Maybe it's not super competitive, but I'm just stubborn and want to use my Warg Marauders in my very first Moria 400p game. ;-)
The idea here was to use the Prowlers on those that got pushed by the marauders.

I like Moria being so diverse in having great beasts, good cavalry and great mass opportunities. They might lack courage or high fight values (on infantry) but I like the fact that there are multiple options to go by with - not like Eregion (what I currently have as well) that just always looks sort of the same.

Moria 400pts

Warband 1
Durburz
3 Moria Goblin Prowlers with shields
5 Moria Goblin warriors with shield (1 with nothing)
1 Warg Marauder

Warband 2
Moria Goblin Shaman
Warg Marauder
5 Moria Goblin warriors with shield
1 Cave Troll

Warband 3
Goblin Captain with shield
4 Wild Wargs

total: 400pts
Models: 23
Might: 6
Author:  Salattu [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
This army list with Durburz, shaman, captain, a few goblins, marauders, wild warg and cave troll... Is slightly messy, no offence.

I know you won't like this list put ill let it out...

Durburz
-12 goblins

Shaman
-12 goblin

Warg chieftain
-12 wild warg

I think a full pack of wargs mgiht work better than a few separate cavalry. Cavalry can do fine when they have priority, but if enemy gets next one, too few cavalry is actually quite weak. If you had 12 wargrider then they could smash dem all...
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
Wild Wargs aren't cavalry, just big infantry. But the point about messy is true.

Also there's no spears there, spears will help you get more models in combat which is what you want.
Author:  Teacups17 [ Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
I feel your pain about Groblog as he is invaluable to a goblin force with shamans and I just cannot get hold of one at a reasonable price.

I know you want to put in your warg marauder, but without anything else fast (even wild wargs) it is really easy to getting picked off as it will be an easy target because of the slow move of the rest of the goblins. Personally it does not fit in a horde of low points goblins.
Author:  Sephalo [ Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 400p Moria - To mass, or not to mass...
True, Wild wargs aren't cavalry but the Marauders are, right?

And I might have to swap some shieldmen for spearmen, that's true.

I'm trying to get myself some more wargs so I could cover a warband with wild wargs and a chieftain.

I was also wondering what would be great for Goblin Prowlers. I've only got the original ones with 2H weapon (great for the trapping bonus ofc.) but I was wondering if they the way to go in a mass/prowler kind of list. Wouldn't you take them with bows instead?
Reasoning: You prefer to not let them get killed so keep them in the back for a while, until you can surround enemy units and they can shuffle in to get the trapping bonus.
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