Hello,

So I'm taking the following list to a tournament in June. This tournament is designed to allow people to practice for the NOVA GT. Hence, 800pts and no allies. The scenarios that will be used are "Rescue", "Blockade" and "Seize the Price" from the Desolation of Smaug supplement. I don't own this book so I'm not too familiar with the scenarios.

Anyway here's my list:

Warband 1
The Dark Marshall on Fellbeast
5 Black Númenóreans
5 Morannon Orcs w/Spears

Warband 2
The Knight of Umbar mounted on horse
5 Black Númenóreans
5 Morannon Orcs w/Spears
1 Mordor Troll
1 Mordor Orc w/Banner

Warband 3
Mordor Troll Chieftain
4 Mordor Orcs w/shields
4 Mordor Orcs w/spears
2 Mordor Orcs w/two-handed weapons

35 Models. 7 Points of Might.

Strengths:
3 Monsters
2 named Ringwraiths
Heavy infantry shield walls
Terror
2 banners (The Dark Marshall)
Competitive and Thematic

Weaknesses:
Lowish numbers
No Shooting
No Cavalry
Medium-ish might
Mordor Orcs
Orc and Troll Courage
No Fury

I personally think I've got a good list here but I greatly value your feedback. Thoughts?

I think it looks pretty strong. Looking at the weakness you've listed. The main one that sticks out is courage and then additionally no fury, to support it. Buuut what is going to make you take test? Breaking, firstly and most importantly probably, second, terror, wizards, aura of dismay. With your two wraiths though, I feel like at least one should be sticking around when you're broken so you should have a stand fast and the wraiths can double duty sap will the wizards, and take off the auras so you shouldn't struggle with that too much.

I think the only thing that feels weakish would be the numbers, and I am not a huge expert on Mordor or even 800 points really, I mostly play 500-600, but I would consider what armies you could see at 800 and what their frontlines would look like and whether or not the 30 odd orcs will stand up to it. You're heroes are certainly strong and should match up or negate enemy ones but I think the orcs just out matched in battle lines might be a concern.

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Cheers,

P

Hi Polywags. Thank for the feedback.

Yes, the regular Orcs are the weakest element. They're standard light infantry and so can fight on equal terms with most human armies, but aren't great grinders. I took them mainly to boost my numbers. I plan to use them in a supporting role while the Black Numenoreans and their Morannon Orc spear support do the grunt work.

In my experience armies around 800pts tend to have between 3 to 4 full warbands (39-52) so I'm a bit on the smaller side, although not by too much. While I don't think I'll outnumber many armies, I don't suspect I'll be vastly outnumbered either. Especially since at 800pts most players, in my experience, like to use the extra space to get some big heroes or monsters.

Thanks again for the feedback!

At very first I must say I love to see for a long time some army list with mordor troll and fellbeast. It's just so traditional, from year 2004-2005, love to see it!

THEMIC:
A general complainment. The knight of umbar is a bit illogical as unit. E.g mirror valar 100 strenght... But in normal games unless enemy has balrog, ent, etc, it's not a problem. ^^

Overall about theme. Black numenorians mixed with orcs seems simply odd. I know people try to make maximal strong army with cost of themic, who wouldn't, but black numenoreans should be some kind of rare special forces. I can't see them in normal army, unless they have own group, maybe then, or assisting mouth of sauron.

Without these black numenorians u could make an thematic army. I suggest to do it.

Effectiveness:

Dark Marshal doesn't benefit that much from fellbeast. I mean, it has aura of banner carrier which doesn't require to be seen. Fight value is a bit higher than other nazguls, true. But i could see more sense to switch these nazguls opposite. As then you could use fellbeast against even strongest enemies with knight of umbar. And Dark marshal could save will points and stick to late game to keep units from breaking, and offering flag. Also, nazgul should be mobile unit, banner carrier not so much.

You could also consider about replacing another nazgul, getting more mass with fourth warband, form a mobile group for fellbeast with wargriders... Or other stuff... I just kind of feel these units needed a little bit twist.

Hi Salattu, thank for the feedback.

I see your point about Black Numenoreans fighting in the same unit as Orcs not being thematic. Although I don't know if Tolkien ever gives much discussion of how they fought in Mordor's armies. There were very few of them by the time of the War of the Ring.

I meant thematic in the more loose sense of it all being from one faction. No cheesy combos by allying in random heroes who would have never encountered each other (ie. Alfrid and Gil-galad). This is a straight up Mordor army, pure and simple. If it has any theme, it perhaps represents a portion of the army during the battle of the Morannon.

I see your point about swapping the Ringwraiths. The Knight of Umbar would benefit from the Fellbeast more for combat, especially given his weaker spellcasting. The reason I gave it to the Marshall was b/c I needed another banner and I wanted to maximize the space it covered. As for the Knight of Umbar himself, I mainly chose him for his 3 might points rather than his combat rule (this list was slightly based off a Morgul Host 850pt list I wrote which included the Witch-King).

I do want to keep the two Nazgul however as that was one of the starting points when I was designing this list. One Ringwraith is a lot to deal with and quite scary. Two of them should surely scare my opponent and provide me with more opportunities.

Thanks again for the feedback!

I like the core of the force, very hard to deal with. My main concern is that you have fairly low numbers at this level, and a lot of it is reasonably easy to kill.

I know you want the extra monster and banner, but I'd be tempted to drop the Troll and Orc Banner in warband 2,which frees up 130 points that you can spend on a captain and 10 Morannons, or whatever blend you're comfortable with.

You are right. Fellbeast doesn't need to be used as a combat beast, it can be good for simply better vision and mobility. Dark Marshal is quite a good bet on fellbeast! If you just make it and save enough will points, he can keep army up and bannered after broken.

Umbar without fellbeast doesn't have that good stats: most enemies are low strenght, and have instead magical weapons etc (if they are formidable enemies), so he couldn't be used to real combats and be as strong as enemy. Also he wouldn't have attributes to kill weak or transfered enemies. He would survive better in situation where enemy gets priority and rushes in, but if he is on foot, he doesn't need to take huge riscs. And so on.

So, have u considered choosing some other nazgul on foot/horse despite loosing 1 might. For example, Dwimmerlake is a PAIN to enemy heroes, or other good option could be shadowlord if enemy has a lot archers. (Well, in case of shadowlord you should DEFINITELY put him on fellbeast to protect from arrows).

And about black numenorians... If you really like them, perhaps you could consider using them as a bodyguard for umbar (only)? As army books says he was probably a numenorean once, it could make some kind sense.

Trolls are cool, don't drop them! ^^

I understand you may know a good deal of this, but just from an outside perspective, some thoughts:

1-Numbers are small, but your army has a high defense. That should balance out, but make sure heroes are spaced appropriately for standfast.
2-Your heroes are beastly. For the scenarios you should be able to use them to max out your potential. One thing I wonder though....you wouldnt rather have the KOU on the fellbeast and the dark marshall on horse? The banner is still mobile and now your killer(KOU) can move anywhere and destroy things while keeping your general safe. Either way....the way it is now definitely does work too. But I'd rather have the KOU able to fly over lines and pick targets to assassinate.
3-Personally, unless you need it for the tournament I'd remove the regular banner. I find time and time again unless you have elves or certain armies they dont help to win as many fights as you'd hope. Either way with your army size, the Dark Marshall is definitely in range of most of it.
4-I love the combination of terror units and the wraiths harbinger. Again....spacing and watching your flanks to avoid getting your non terror causing support attacked is important.
5-Might is low....and I have a suggestion that will probably change your army too much for your liking. Change the troll Chieftain to a Taskmaster. Either that or a taskmaster and mounted shaman. Those two combined are 20 points less, and can fill out some warbands. This way you will have courage to charge any terrorizing enemies, fury to keep them alive, and by probability, you'd go from 7 might to a possible 10-11. Thats massive.
I've had taskmasters that saved 5+ might at 800 points. A few weeks ago, I had a taskmaster that ended the game having used 6 might himself, with one left, and the game ended......
I REALLY feel that you have enough power in your army especially considering what people bring to our tournaments. Only a few understand ringwraiths, and fewer can handle them on fellbeasts.
Between those two wraiths' killing power, and the regular troll....you have more than enough killing power and I seriously believe to balance out the rest of the army you can use more units and more trickery i.e. fury, might saves, etc


Basically I agree with what Mr. Dude said.

To summarize(In my opinion if I made it):
-Switch the wraith mounts
-Replace Cheiftain with Taskmaster and morannons/upgrades to morannon
OR
Taskmaster, Shaman, and more units
-Drop the second banner

Im overall not TOO worried about the numbers. Besides a few players, our group likes to use big heroes it seems. At least one per army seems to be level of maxed Thorin, Glorfindel, Boromir maxed, etc.

I still would like to see a few more units and get ya in the lower to mid forties.

EDIT:
Or heck...if you want another sick killing hero ignore what I said.... take out the troll, put in Shagrat and save 30 points. Take out the banner. Add more Morannons and ugrade other orcs.

You can at least fill 3 warbands, and have 1 more might with a guy who def can kill a lot.

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I'm currently considering a similar list.



I personally feel it's worth sacrificing the two trolls for a second fell beast, and boosted heavy infantry numbers.