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| Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=30960 |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Thu May 07, 2015 7:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
So my friend has recently taken to using a dragon in combination with the dwemerlaik and then a mountain load of orcs. Individually I'm usually able to deal with each of them but so far I just haven't been able to beat this combo. Either I focus on the dragon and am spread too thinly elsewhere or I try and bring down the wraith and then the dragon mops up or I just can't chop through enough orcs to break them quick enough. I usually run dwarves, I've tried budget hordes or highly elite armies but I just can't seem to get the right mix. Anything to help would be appreciated, and I acknowledge I probably haven't provided enough info so any questions please ask away, cheers! |
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| Author: | Wan Shi Tong [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Okay questions. What points level are you two playing at? Are you willing to try allying in some help from say the elves or the wizards? which dwarves are you playing new or old? What is the dragon outfitted with? Off the top of my head I'd say try the Loremaster, whose name escapes me, so you can remove the Dwemerlaik's might sapping special rule. That way you can use a hero to win against the dragon, kill it with piercing strike then turn on the orcs and Dwemerlaik. You could also try a siege weapon to use against either the dragon or the orc hoard. You won't get to many shots and you'll be giving your enemy the run of the board but it kills regardless of wound count. It has some useful upgrades as well and can be used to disrupted the orcs as the come toward you. It could work if you used a engineer captain but it could just get stepped on by the dragon before you get two shots off so its hard to say. |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Definitely going to need to know what points you are playing at and a rough outline of his army. Also, are you playing different scenarios, or just deathmatch style kill the enemy games? Floi could be helpful for removing a special rule. Thinking you're probably running about 750 points, and he's getting about 40 guys....you could counter with the following: balin w/ axe gimli floi shieldbearer 24 dwarf w/ shield 16 dwarf w/ bow 8 khazad guard You've got ~10 more guys, better bow fire, heroes to chew through his orcs, floi can stop the dragon or dwimmer, and the khazad + a hero can go dwimmer hunting. Assuming you take out the dwimmer/nullify his might rule, you also have a lot more might to throw around. |
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| Author: | Badner [ Thu May 07, 2015 8:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
You can also try out Bard with the windlance and maybe one or two warbands of militia for having the numbers, too. Galadriel BOFA might also be quiet good against the Dwimmerlaik. You can also try out Beorn. He is able to kill almost anybody, including a dragon. Or you take Saruman on horse. Try to compel /transfix the Dwimmerlaik, so he stays away from your heroes. Otherwise, he has to spend Ws for resisting him. Saruman can use his spells on a bigger distance that the Dwimmerlaik. So don't need to spend an extra W for your spells. |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Thu May 07, 2015 10:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Cheers for the quick responses, and in terms of games we tend to play anywhere between 750-1,500pts which is quite a large range. Generally the army consists of a dragon with fly and tough hide, and a band of orcs, the dwemerlaik and a band of orcs and then miscellaneous shamans, taskmasters and captains with warbands. Nearer the bottom end (750pts) the dragon is less likely to appear but then there's usually another nazgul to contend with, and more orcs -.- In terms of dwarves i've tried a multiple armies including new dwarves or old dwarves and sometimes a mix of the two. I've also previously allied in some galadhrim with old thranduil or in the larger pts matches I bring saruman in for support, I'm not against allying anything in so long as I can loosely justify it lore wise. Also a question to consider, which game type do you think would be best suited for my army or alternatively worst suited for his? Currently we tend to play either to the death or hold ground as they tend to be most popular with our group. |
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| Author: | Badner [ Fri May 08, 2015 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Hi, what do you think about this 900 Pts. army?: the White Council Warband 1 Saruman the White with Horse; Galadriel, Lady of Light Army of Thror Warband 1 Thorin Oakenshield with The Oakenshield; Orcrist; 5 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Shield; 6 Warrior of Erebor with Shield; 1 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Warband 2 Dwalin 6 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Shield; 6 Warrior of Erebor with Shield; Warband 3 Balin 5 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Shield; 6 Warrior of Erebor with Shield; 1 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; The Army of Laketown Alfred the councillor I do also like the theme of this army: Warband 1 Thorin Oakenshield with Pony; The Oakenshield; Dwarf Bow; Orcrist; 5 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Shield; 6 Warrior of Erebor with Shield; 1 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Warband 2 Dwalin with Pony; 5 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; Shield; 6 Warrior of Erebor with Shield; 1 Warrior of Erebor with Spear; The Army of Laketown Warband 1 Alfred the councillor Survivors of Lake-town Warband 1 Bard the Bowman, Girion's Heir with Armour; Horse; Windlance; 4 Laketown Militia with Bow; 4 Laketown Militia with Spear; 4 Laketown Militia with Shield; Warband 2 Laketown Militia Captain with Shield; 4 Laketown Militia with Bow; 4 Laketown Militia with Spear; 4 Laketown Militia with Shield; Total: 900 Pts. I hope it helps |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Fri May 08, 2015 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
I love the theme to that second list especially, but I can't help but feel the first list might be more practical at dealing with the dragon. Do you think it's feasible to field two spellcasters in the same force or would I be better maybe trading galadriel for some more troops or a stonger hero? |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Fri May 08, 2015 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
In my mind only having three full warbands of troops at 900 points is too few. For the first list I'd drop galadriel and add some more guys. |
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| Author: | Badner [ Sat May 09, 2015 7:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
I do also think that the first list is better. I just wanted to share the second list. Two spellcasters can be too much, yes. However, I think that Galadriel and Saruman together will kill the Dwimmerlaik very fast. You can always cast banishment (is this the right name?) on him. He always has to spend several Ws, otherwise, he is dead. |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Sat May 09, 2015 10:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Awesome cheers for the thoughts guys. I've got 1,500pt game later so I think I'll use list 1 as a base and then expand from there, I think a bucket load of troops should probably be the best course of action for expanding the force. Anything you think I'd be missing heavily? |
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| Author: | Badner [ Sat May 09, 2015 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
Yes, try to include cavalry models for the hammer and ambos tactic. Let him hit your high defence dwarf shield wall and attack the his back with the cavalry. This means that he doesn't have spear support and he has to split his force. Make sure that your cavalry his a hero for not getting surrounded in the turn after your attack. Remember the special rule for the White Council.Channel Galadriel's other spell (not banishment) in the first turn with at least two dices, so she and Saruman cannot be supwilled. Maybe you can also include Beorn. Give him Alfrid's extra M but don't make him your leader. He can kill the dragon on his own. Transfix the dragon and place Galadriel close enough, so he has a lower C. However, try to have high numbers! |
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| Author: | Galanur [ Sat May 09, 2015 3:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
One advice I give you when facing a dragon, dragon´s are known for 3 things in abundance, Strength, cunning and greed, do not underestimate neither of those. What configuration he uses on the dragon? it really depends on how hes equipped. |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Sat May 09, 2015 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
So me and my buddy won this round cheers guys!!! It was a very close call, the game type rolled was lords of battle which worked very well for us due to our lower model count. It was very much a back and forth battle with each side suffering some horrendous rounds of combat. Saruman was basically a huge dragon block all game, but given that the dragon only killed about two iron guard I felt these were pts well spent, his terrifying aura even prevented the dragon from charging him twice which was extremely useful. Galadriel's Fortify spirit was extremely useful for deterring the wraiths from casting against the more powerful heroes but her Banishment spell didn't really accomplish anything other than draining a few will pts, but either way she reduced the effectiveness of the two wraiths that appeared so pts well spent. I included a warband of iron guard and one of khazad guard and both performed extremely well at both weathering attacks from the numerous orcs and dishing out some damage. Thorin sadly only managed to kill one orc all game, despite having all equipment options bar his bow... Thankfully the game ended on the same turn that both of us were broken and the final score rested at 51-64, a Victory to the Dwarves!!! |
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| Author: | Badner [ Sun May 10, 2015 6:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
That is nice to hear. Which list did you play? I am surprised that Galadriel didn't work. What was the problem? |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Sun May 10, 2015 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
The Final Army List was: Thorin (Orcrist, Oakenshield, Pony), 12 warriors or erebor Dwalin (Pony) 12 warriors of dale (didn't have two sets of erebor dwarves sadly) Balin (old, Durin's Axe) 12 Iron Guard Dwarf Capt (Shield) 11 Khazad Guard, 1 Dwarf warrior Banner Dwarf Capt (Shield) 12 Dwarf Warriors with Shield Dwarf Capt (Shield) 8 Dwarf Warriors with Shield Then it was Galadriel and Saruman from the BOFA Source and Galadriel did perform just not in all areas, for example she did prevent the wraiths from neutralising my best heroes but they had enough will to resist her banish spell so it only really soaked up a few of their will points and then in the last two turns of desperate fighting she joined the dwarven ranks and failed to wound in the first fight and lost two fate in the second... |
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| Author: | Badner [ Sun May 10, 2015 8:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
okay, thank you for the infos. Which wraiths did he have? |
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| Author: | Gshaw [ Sun May 10, 2015 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Dragon, Dwemerlaik, Orcs... Help Please! |
He took the dwemerlaik as predicted and the dark marshall as well, mercifully our least experienced group member was in control of the dwermerlaik so it's positioning wasn't always optimal and If I were cruel I could have not reminded him about it's special rule constantly throughout the game as well haha. |
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