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SBG: What do you think of my 1000pt besiegers? http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18197	Page 1 of 1

Author:	TheEggman [ Wed Apr 21, 2010 9:40 pm ]
Post subject:	SBG: What do you think of my 1000pt besiegers?
Me and my friend are having a siege battle this weekend, and here is my tentative army list. We are not playing LoME, and are both new to the siege rules, do please excuse any heinous mistakes! We are playing with the defender having 750 pts, and the attacker 1000, with a 100 model limit. Mordor troll chieftain Mordor war catapult x2 one w/ troll Uruk captain w/ heavy armor and shield 9 uruk hai - sheild or pike 2 berserkers Lurtz 5 Uruk scouts - 3 w/ sheilds 12 haradrim warriors w/ spears or bows 1 Orc captain w/shield 31 Orcs 996 pts 69 models In addition, I have 2 siege towers, a ram and six ladders. Whaddaya think?

Author:	spuds4ever [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:55 am ]
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Siege sounds like fun! For the army I would get rid of the scouts and catapult without the troll to get more uruk-hai warriors and berzerkers. If you have any crossbow uruks I would swap the haradrim for them as it fits the theme more and they're better all-round but are more expensive. I would swap the orc captain for Grishnahk or Gorbag and maybe swap out the troll on the catapult but that depends whether you prefer numbers or not.

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:36 am ]
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for 1K points I think that you are to heavy hitting. leave out 1 catapult w/o a troll, as it woun´t be as useful as the other, so you can get more evil troops to do ya bidding On the whole not a bad army, but have you ever considered using LoME as it does balance out a game

Author:	General Elessar [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:26 pm ]
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A Siege game with 750pts for the defender and 1000pts for the attacker? That's going to be a really long game...

Author:	Highlordell [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:39 pm ]
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Quote: A Siege game with 750pts for the defender and 1000pts for the attacker? That's going to be a really long game... Depends what objectives he's using to be honest. Your list is good for starters but like many have said, drop the catapult without the troll, because even if your other one doesnt have much of an impact, the troll cheiftai is always there. And also, you might to swap some of your elites and heroes from cheap troops, because you will tyake alot of damge from missile fire in the way in and you NEED to outnumber your opponent in seige games in most circumstances. Also, im not sure crossbows wolud be too good an idea, because, as they cannot m ove and shoot, you will have to sacrifice alot of turn as they reposition when you eventually break into the fortress. Make sure to tell us how it goes!

Author:	General Elessar [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:52 pm ]
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Highlordell wrote: Quote: A Siege game with 750pts for the defender and 1000pts for the attacker? That's going to be a really long game... Depends what objectives he's using to be honest. Of course, but I would be surpised if they managed to finish it within two hours.

Author:	TheEggman [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:24 pm ]
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Thanks for the replies! The scenario we are doing is 'The Siege of Minas Tirith' from SoG, pg 48. It will be long, but we played the same game a few weeks ago with me as defender, and w managed to get it done within about four and a half hours including set up and army lists, so it should easily fit within an afternoon. I'll dump a catapult, and put in some more Uruks, i guess. Unfortunately, I don't have any more Berserkers tho. I will keep the catapult troll though, cos I rarely rely on numbers - hey, I like cavalry! I would put in crossbows - I have 3 - but my friend used them last game, without too great an effect. he put them on top of the siege towers so they could shoot and move, but he wound up with too many on top of his towers, and it took a long time to get to my walls. Any other way is fairly impractical, as they will probably be turned into pincushions. I do have LoME, but my forces and funds are limited, so I rarely use it. Plus, I used to have the Head Office near me, but the damn place closed, so now I have to go quite a ways to get any minis. Anyway - If GW really wanted a balanced game, they wouldn't have released that Harad supplement...

Author:	the director [ Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:29 pm ]
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whats wrong with the harad sup?

Author:	TheEggman [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:19 pm ]
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It seems almost to exploit the rules. Stack the stats where it matters most - the number of attacks, and compensate for the increased points cost by giving it Courage 1. Why do you need courage when your force will never be broken? The half trolls and the Mahud camel riders bug me the most. The half trolls, I can get almost three of them for the cost of an Uruk hai captain, and the only advantage the U-hai has is a few MWF points. Plus, the models defy the description, which says "There is little chance that these warriors have real trollish blood." And the Mahud camel riders are ridiculous. 3 attacks on the charge, plus a free S4 hit? It seems to me as a not very Tolkienish supplement, but more of a Warhammerish supplement. Many parts of it don't fit in well with the rest of the game.

Author:	the director [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:01 pm ]
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Half trolls are 22 points, which is pretty huge if you ask me! obviously an uruk-hai captain would probably lose in close combat with 3 half trolls but if you gave him heavy armour, a shield and a crossbow 65 points) and started from 24 inches away he'd give them a go! Another thing to consider is the value the captain would add to a force that he simply can't to a fight when he's on his own. his might for heroic actions for example and his stand fast. muhad raiders again costly on points, but i have to agree, a bit ridiculous. but honestly that one courage really does hurt them. if you're fighting a 500 point army of these guys there would be 25 without heros, you'd therefore only have to cause 13 defense 5 wounds before there's a great cahnce of them just running for it!

Author:	TheEggman [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:09 pm ]
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True, half trolls are expensive, but that Uruk captain wouldn't stand a chance. His shield wouldn't give him a defensive bonus - he has a crossbow, and he'd be able to get maybe one wound in with it before they closed in. The issue is that GW has made a force that is really really difficult - almost impossible - to Break. The low courage rarely matters unless you are facing Gil-Galad, or a wizard with Terrifying aura, because with 2 attack warriors, you are probably going to do a lot of winning. Compare a half troll to say, WoMT. Three of those (1 pt less than half troll - or with sheilds, two points more) against a half troll? My $$ is on the half troll. Your second paragraph, I can't really respond to. It seems to be WoTR? I am an SBG guy.

Author:	Highlordell [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm ]
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In his second paragrraph he is saying that in 500 point force without, heroes, there would still only be 25 of them, and because there defence is quite low, it not be hard to kill 13 of them (causing them to break). Buti know what you are talking about, i use Far Harad regualry and your opponent will not break you because the defence does not matter when each warrio has 2 attcks and a high fight value, you just arent going to lose fights... Luckily the fact that they are metal means it is very costly to have a whole list of them, so i ally them into my other lists such as Corsairs and Mordor (which in the thread i posted yesterday about my battle(which funnilly enough i won, no thanks to the Mahud )). Yes some are overpowered, but once the leaders are dead then they are leaving as soon as they are broken. They also fail at some scenarios where numbers is key.

Author:	spuds4ever [ Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:46 pm ]
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Mahud courage dosen't matter too much as they have the "warrior pride" rule which counters it completely.

Author:	ShadowMaster26 [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 7:57 am ]
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Far Harad... Okay, so a bit on the overpowered side. However, a fair bit of shooting will crush them completely. Compared to a powerhouse army like the Shire or Woses, they fall down.

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:31 am ]
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Heh then counter attack them with the army of the Dead perfect any Far harad army, They cant (dare not to) charge You.... You pick the fights You kill them on 3+ mmm... seems perfect... thank god i use the GC, Dead and the " Three hunters "

Author:	TheEggman [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:16 pm ]
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Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: Heh then counter attack them with the army of the Dead perfect any Far harad army, They cant (dare not to) charge You.... You pick the fights You kill them on 3+ mmm... seems perfect... thank god i use the GC, Dead and the " Three hunters " True! If my regular opponent ever picks up any Far harad, I'll get those guys! It also bugs me because the Mahud don't seem Tolkienish... it's hard to explain, but it kind of gets me....

Author:	Adanedhel [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 5:22 pm ]
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ShadowMaster26 wrote: Far Harad... Okay, so a bit on the overpowered side. However, a fair bit of shooting will crush them completely. Compared to a powerhouse army like the Shire or Woses, they fall down. I'm guessing this to be sarcastic, and have to say those Woses really are worth their points, actually in my environment (with no blue on blue though) they are the most popular Rohan ally, were their abilities come best into play Firstly elven cloaks, whilst giving support means, not getting shot secondly blowpipes, which do not count toward bow limit thirdly the hatred rule is exceptionally strong in a no-blue-on-blue environment they're Rohans best ally in our opinion

Author:	Mouth-of-Sauron [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 6:18 pm ]
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I would depict Mahud as constantly fighting race of men from diffrent tribes, and as only the strongest survives this would be the case, but still they seem to be ridiculously stronger than any race of men Tolkien has ever written/mentioned not to mention that the tribe/kingdom wars were constant between haradrim and easterlings... Numenoreans were the strongest of all men ever living, but they fall far behind when compared to Mahud, athough Black Numenoreans are a somewhat better challenge to them but still they seem to be like a crossbreed of a troll and a man... I have nothing against the Half-Trolls, cause they at least seem monsters as their stats represent them to be but Mahud... Mahud should have at least look less like human, whit stats like that

Author:	spuds4ever [ Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:19 pm ]
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Mouth-of-Sauron wrote: Heh then counter attack them with the army of the Dead perfect any Far harad army, They cant (dare not to) charge You.... You pick the fights You kill them on 3+ mmm... seems perfect... thank god i use the GC, Dead and the " Three hunters " Urmm.. warrior pride rule? So they can charge (warrior pride) they're cheaper, have twice as many attacks and still wound on 6s because of S4. Sure you would kill on 3+ but the enemy would have over twice as many attacks so wounding dosen't matter if you can't win fights.

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