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Which
Army 1 44%  44%  [ 8 ]
Army 2 22%  22%  [ 4 ]
Army 3 22%  22%  [ 4 ]
Army 4 11%  11%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 18
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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:09 am 
Elven Elder
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Sikano wrote:
I feel like knight Umbar is THE way to go. You can expect heavy hitters on the other team with the rules and having the Knight of Umbar's mimicry is super nice to fight monsters with.


But he doesn't add anything that the force lacks. There's already serious monster punch in LOTBR's evil lists (and the one I suggested tweaks for is IMO by far the best). Bringing the Dwimmerlaik and Shade is far better than the KOU and Shade. You force your opponent to spend 2 might to ever roll a 6 within range of these two. The entire army causes terror and the 2 Nazgul give your opponent the -1.

I don't think this list could get any better, apart from what ai would bring lol. Wish I could come and beat you all LOTBR

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:31 am 
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A list I would go fort hat tourney at 750 up to 20 models I bring would be Durin´s folk for this....

Warband 1
Durin, King of Khazad Dum
5 khazads

Warband 2
Mardin
2x khazad

Warband 3
Floi Stonehand
2 khazad
1 dwarf with shield

warband 4
King´s Champion and heralds
2 khazad

warband 5
Galadriel, Lady of Light

warband 6
Oin the dwarf, champion of erebor

750 on spot

Galadriel protect with light and some anti magic
Oin can heal guys if needed and spend 1 will to allow you to re-roll a duel roll nearby him (almost like a banner)
Floi is there basically to nullify character´s special rules as i know with 20 models for max ill be seeing plenty nasty nazguls and shades and wat not
Mardin a support guy mostly, he got a spear so might come handy, also usefull to wound trolls and he got 3 might anyway (can spend his allowing all heroes to make heroic moves and all)
Finally 2 big beasts in combat to sway my oponents daring attempts, Durin itself and the King´s champion

And oddly enough quite several khazads for this, 11 khazad guards to allow me to block stuff without fear as they punch good and protect my heroes, last lonely dwarf with D7 just to fill the last points and make that the 20th member.


What would consider with this list?
Thorin, king under the mountain for free heroic combat as It keep my beastly heroes going...


Last edited by Galanur on Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:34 am 
Elven Elder
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If i were going dwarves I'd bring Thorin, Dwalin, Kings Champion and a ton of vault wardens. But the force I have in mind would squash even that

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:38 am 
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only testing you would know... i you roll badly no force can save yu :P
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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:00 am 
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Sikano wrote:
I feel like knight Umbar is THE way to go. You can expect heavy hitters on the other team with the rules and having the Knight of Umbar's mimicry is super nice to fight monsters with.


Yeah there will be a lot of tough armies. Thats what my idea was.

JamesR wrote:
If i were going dwarves I'd bring Thorin, Dwalin, Kings Champion and a ton of vault wardens. But the force I have in mind would squash even that



Whats your idea? Im curious to know.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:14 am 
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apologies gal I didn't mean it would crush your force I meant it would crush the dwarf list that I was suggesting.

as for the force that I would take I would have

Warband 1
Sauron w the Ring
Mordor Troll x2

Warband 2
Shade

4 models that will dominate their surroundings Lol

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:44 am 
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Yeah.....I thought about him.....Idk.....He seems powerful enough, but I fear that with that army, I wont be able to capture objectives. Like, he can do whatever he wants to one of my units per turn, but if I had any of my armies, Id win the collect Ring scenario for sure.

The to the death would be difficult, but I have might and wraiths to ruin his trolls attacks and fight value. They would die in a few good turns of combat.

As for the hill one, same story, but Id have to take out his trolls, wait for him to fail a courage test with the shade or the game end and put all of my models on the hill.

I think numbers win out. Ive fought a mordor army with sauron before with only part of my army and I was able to hold him off long enough to dismantle the army around him.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:55 am 
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That's why it's key that the army is so small. In objective based games I don't need every objective, just more than my opponent. Also he's a far better spell caster than the Wraiths, with superior range. Chill Soul each turn will kill a troll long before it can reach Sauron, or a Wraith.

In such small games (unit number limits) he's unstoppable.

The capture the ring is basically grab the marker right?
Mounted units can't pick up items. So that's no problem cuz no one would be able to take it from him.

In the hill game his force would never flee as his courage and will is too high. And his magic would devastate.

In the objective game he could hold one and bombard a second with his 18" range. Plus if there's only 3 objectives you're simply not beating that force

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:21 am 
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JamesR wrote:
That's why it's key that the army is so small. In objective based games I don't need every objective, just more than my opponent. Also he's a far better spell caster than the Wraiths, with superior range. Chill Soul each turn will kill a troll long before it can reach Sauron, or a Wraith.

In such small games (unit number limits) he's unstoppable.

The capture the ring is basically grab the marker right?
Mounted units can't pick up items. So that's no problem cuz no one would be able to take it from him.

In the hill game his force would never flee as his courage and will is too high. And his magic would devastate.

In the objective game he could hold one and bombard a second with his 18" range. Plus if there's only 3 objectives you're simply not beating that force


Yeah but for the objectives its as simple as who reaches the ring first. And he definitely will not. That whole army moves six, and in each of mine I have two units that move more than that. So pretty much yeah, he can cast magic against the ring holder, but I will generally use the guy I have with the most will to resist. Also, if its the Dwimmerlaik, he has to stay out of range of my unit or he will pay double will.

The deployments are not allowed in the middle of the board. I failed to mention that.

In the hill game, thats fine. Any of my armies would be able to kill at least one troll before he really affects my army, and then Id go after either the shade or the other troll. Its just so limited in numbers.

Imagine if I got priority. Id use my magic to move and transfix the shade, charge it, and murder it. I dont think it would take long unless they played it perfectly.

The thing is, if we dont break in time we calculate(according to previous tournaments) who has more points on the hill. So all I have to do is kill the rest of his army and distract him.

I dont mean to make it sound simple, but Im rather good at tying enemies up and even taking loses for the larger goal.

And Im not sure what you mean if there is only 3 objectives I wouldnt? The more objectives, the more that force suffers. And Id be happy to have him stay 18 inches away. I dont want him in combat haha.

I dont mean to make this sound like my plan will work easily....but thats what Im going off of. Id rather have an army with a bunch of good heroes and monsters than one with a few good ones and one epic one.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:59 pm 
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Oh now it's on! Lol. Date, location and time?!

Actually I probably won't be able to make it, but just in the off chance could you tell me?

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:43 pm 
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I did tried this dwarven list I pointed above once and funny with a similar list with sauron, sauron coudlnt do a thing to galadriel, he had archers that would only hit on a 6s and magic forget it, she was rolling 3 dices every turn.

Feed Sauron with 1 khazad a turn
I did used banishment once on Sauron and he didnt like losing 3 wounds from it as I planned using floi will to remove the lord of the rings rule once. (he wasted so many chill souls previously while oin was healing what dmg he was dealing, to the point that I think he forgot galadriel is made to spell fight spirits)

He had 1 troll though and not 2, the troll died to durin and 3 khazad´s in a round as durin dealt 2 wounds and 1 of the khazad took his last as the 2nd point of floi was used to remove the nearby shade special rule(to gain it back after the troll was dead).

I´ve sent the king´s champ and his standarts + 1 khazad towards Sauron and kept oin nearby.
Galadriel took 2 wounds out of the shade with a channeled banishment . and shade dropped to the issuing fight phase to durin as floi removed the shade special rule again, and gain got the point back.

Game ended with sauron alive wih 1 wound and no might fighting the king´s champ and durin. He just didnt dropped cause of the ring, he was with 1 will left as I kepts shooting galadriel´s normal banishments and he had some lucky resist rolls
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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 4:01 pm 
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JamesR wrote:
Oh now it's on! Lol. Date, location and time?!

Actually I probably won't be able to make it, but just in the off chance could you tell me?

Haha that would be awesome.

Chicagoland March 28-31 Id have to look it up. And its from 6pm to 11pm.

I forgot the exact details for the moment.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 7:05 pm 
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Here is the link to the event...
http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2015/2015lotr.pdf

Going with Army Two.
Half-Trolls are tough, 2 Attacks & 2 Wounds, High Fight & High Defense.
I feel there is value to fielding more troops.
Tactical advantages in placement during and protecting break point.
Armies with too few models can find themselves trapped by Half-Trolls.
Double strikes from Half-Trolls, ...yeah, no thanks.
Then all that other stuff you have planned.
When I field my Far Harad, it's all about the bass, I mean the Half-Trolls.

Army One is cool though.
Bringing current models out would be boss.

I am making my pitch to attend.
Have to brainstorm as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 8:10 pm 
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Rangefinder wrote:
Here is the link to the event...
http://www.adepticon.org/wpfiles/2015/2015lotr.pdf

Going with Army Two.
Half-Trolls are tough, 2 Attacks & 2 Wounds, High Fight & High Defense.
I feel there is value to fielding more troops.
Tactical advantages in placement during and protecting break point.
Armies with too few models can find themselves trapped by Half-Trolls.
Double strikes from Half-Trolls, ...yeah, no thanks.
Then all that other stuff you have planned.
When I field my Far Harad, it's all about the bass, I mean the Half-Trolls.

Army One is cool though.
Bringing current models out would be boss.

I am making my pitch to attend.
Have to brainstorm as well.


Lee we will talk if you can. I'd love to see you there.

And thanks for re affirming my idea with the half trolls. People who havent dealt with them dont know their wrath.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 3:04 pm 
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Sorry guys I wanna bump this. Id like some more discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:04 pm 
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Okay.
I would still take army one or two. I think that army two is not as good as army one. List two has two miniatures which will die if they don't have any willpoints. They're the only ones with high courage. I am very far away from being a good player, however, I would try to subwill (hope this is the right English name). I would definitely try to kill the wraiths as soon as possible. I don't want to say that this is easy but with only one wound and a limit of combats, you have to be more careful. I think that there is a high chance to face the new Galadriel; she would be very dangerous for you.

I think that list one has everything you need. In my opinion, it's not that bad if Alfrid dies because he will definitely get his points back. You could also try to change Saruman against Gandalf and Beorn against Treebeard. This would give you enough points for a horse.

I hope that helps.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:39 pm 
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Badner your post was easy to follow. The spell name in English is "Sap Will". Just wanted to help you out with that.

And you're right, the Wraiths are vulnerable in those address, but they're absolutely amazing in a support job. They weaken the enemy with Immobilize and their allies do the rest

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:02 am 
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Okay, thank you.

I definitely don't want to say that list 2 is weak. I just wrote all this things because he wanted some discussions. I think a good way to make your army better/find out which one is stronger is to make an "anti army" and think about how your army would perform. I think the best way is to play a game with army one against army two in a random scenario (you can use a d10). Maybe we can try to create a "anti army" for army one so LordoftheBrownRing can have some test games.
The "problem" is that a all of the armys are quite strong. The only way to find the best for LordoftheBrownRing is if he tests the armys. Because on the paper one army can be as good as you want, he also has to feel comfortable with the army.
I think the best thing would be: LordoftheBrownRing plays some games and tells use his thoughts about the armys. After that we can help him much better.

Edit: I had an other idea. At this tournament, you don't deploy close to each other, don't you? So why don't you take a trebuchet, a bolt thrower, a catapult or a siege bow? Because ( if I understand the rules in the right way) they kill a miniature just by causing one wound. At this tournament, you will play against a lot of all hero armys, so you simply place it at the end of your table and shoot at the heroes or, even better, at trolls.

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Badner wrote:
Okay.
I would still take army one or two. I think that army two is not as good as army one. List two has two miniatures which will die if they don't have any willpoints. They're the only ones with high courage. I am very far away from being a good player, however, I would try to subwill (hope this is the right English name). I would definitely try to kill the wraiths as soon as possible. I don't want to say that this is easy but with only one wound and a limit of combats, you have to be more careful. I think that there is a high chance to face the new Galadriel; she would be very dangerous for you.

I think that list one has everything you need. In my opinion, it's not that bad if Alfrid dies because he will definitely get his points back. You could also try to change Saruman against Gandalf and Beorn against Treebeard. This would give you enough points for a horse.

I hope that helps.


I understand your concerns. It is tough having two units that disappear without will. But, the Dwimmerlaik does have 16 will, which is a decent amount considering he casts easily. Also, I will have him mobile on a horse, to keep him from combat.

As for the Knight of Umbar.....Im going to likely win a lot of combats with him on fell beast. And if you win a combat with him, he takes off no will points. He also has 3 might for winning combats and charging.

I understand Galadriel being a problem, but she will be the immediate target of both of my wraiths, especially the knight of umbar, And is she has her magic resisted, Im going to do everything in my power to surround and kill her. And with other spell casters, I will attack them too with my magic. It might be a draw, but then comes my next point.....9 half trolls....they are all fight 5, strength 5. I will likely outnumber most of my opponents. I also have a nearly unkillable troll Cheiftan with might.

The thing is, I can afford casualties, and not break easily. Even if the enemy has 2 spell casters, so do I, and then they can use magic on the Cheiftan who will likely do damage because of that. The half trolls though in this army in my idea, are like the material between bricks of a house, if you understand.

And Im not sure what you meant about a horse. I compared beorn and treebeard and I prefer Beorn every time. He has so many special rules.

JamesR wrote:
Badner your post was easy to follow. The spell name in English is "Sap Will". Just wanted to help you out with that.

And you're right, the Wraiths are vulnerable in those address, but they're absolutely amazing in a support job. They weaken the enemy with Immobilize and their allies do the rest


Exactly. And the Knight of Umbar will target any soft units they have and demolish them in combat. Im going to charge and up my fight against elves and wizards and rend the life out of them.

Badner wrote:
Okay, thank you.

I definitely don't want to say that list 2 is weak. I just wrote all this things because he wanted some discussions. I think a good way to make your army better/find out which one is stronger is to make an "anti army" and think about how your army would perform. I think the best way is to play a game with army one against army two in a random scenario (you can use a d10). Maybe we can try to create a "anti army" for army one so LordoftheBrownRing can have some test games.
The "problem" is that a all of the armys are quite strong. The only way to find the best for LordoftheBrownRing is if he tests the armys. Because on the paper one army can be as good as you want, he also has to feel comfortable with the army.
I think the best thing would be: LordoftheBrownRing plays some games and tells use his thoughts about the armys. After that we can help him much better.

Edit: I had an other idea. At this tournament, you don't deploy close to each other, don't you? So why don't you take a trebuchet, a bolt thrower, a catapult or a siege bow? Because ( if I understand the rules in the right way) they kill a miniature just by causing one wound. At this tournament, you will play against a lot of all hero armys, so you simply place it at the end of your table and shoot at the heroes or, even better, at trolls.


I appreciate the thoughts!

I agree whole heartedly that I need to test these. Unfortunately, I may only be able to get in 3-5 games before the tournament. But I will test vigorously.

As for siege weapons.....Ive practiced and dont trust them. Also I own none hahaha. Thanks though

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 Post subject: Re: Serious tournament army opinion/advise.
PostPosted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:06 pm 
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Okay, I think list two is the best ( after your explanation). Please let me know how you performed at the tests and the tournament.

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