We get a lot of these, but I wanted to start a new one anyway because it's always a fun discussion and people get new experience with their new models all the time.

SO, what is your favourite hero in the upper points range? Why? What experiences have you had with said hero? What worked, what didn't work, and what do you want to try next with the hero?

Doesn't have to be strictly 200+, you can pick stuff like Treebeard for example.

Full Powered Witchking with Crown (or even without it) and morgul dagger on fell beast. tons of will, able to break a wizard's staff and sap will on 3+, access to brutal power attacks, fast movement. It can get rid of anything less than a Balrog with ease. With his crown he gets 8 rending attacks and with 3 mights and a morgul dagger it can get rid of other monsters (including the Balrog and ring-less Sauron)

My favorite is Beorn. Easily one of my favorite characters and while I wasn't initially excited about his look in the movies he grew on me. Haven't used him much though or anyone else this expensive for that matter. Boromir captain of the white tower with banner and what not is awfully fun too though!

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Cheers,

P

Interesting so far. What have been your experiences with putting those kinds of characters into an army?

What got me thinking about this was that I decided to gift myself a Bolg and a Radagast on Sleigh, then I spent the night trying to build armies around them and figure out some tactics. That was when I realized I don't think I've ever strayed into that points zone for a single hero.


If this topic picks up, maybe we can make it a series; topic for Good, topic for Evil, another set for upper-mid-range, mid-range, then smaller heroes.

Mmm I tend to think they don't go into armies very well, generally. Boromir is in a good list for it since there are also tons of cheap heroes who can be troop caddies. He also buff your troops so if you can take enough other troops he's more worth it. I've only taken Beorn a couple times and you can literally throw him into troops and have him kill a whole warband to himself. I think on the big heroes with high defense, Beorn is also resistant to magic, are great at killing troops cause even if they loose a fight or two they won't go down. You gotta be careful about sending them into other cheaper heroes though who can strike up, win a roll against them while they're surrounded and take them down. I think the best part of the big heroes is that once all the might is gone they come out on top. So I would say tactics wise you want to kill as many troops as possible and then once everyone's might starts get low they can duel other heroes and force them to use their might to strike against them when they're safe enough to not die in one go.

I think army building is a little harder. So many scenarios are about numbers which will always be hard if you take a big hero or monster. So you can either go all in and go big heroes all hero and just chop through troops and hope to be able to roll enough 6s or take lots of cheap troops to boost your numbers with other cheap heroes and then try to tip the balance with your beefcake. Really self sufficient troops with either high defense so they can lose some fights and not immediately die, since they'll likely be out numbered. Lots of bows to force your opponent to come into an area you can guard with the biggie. And or the ability to shield on your troops, preferably with high fight so you can charge into two and shield and hope to stall while your biggie runs around and kills everything.

Big problem will always be magic to, because if you take a big hero and they take a wizard they probably will just immobilize and kill your heroes, rinse and repeat.

I also think deployment is really impactful, in general, but especially on a big hero. If they can deploy a lot of their army way from a big points chunk of your army that hero isn't going to get much done so maybe trying to get a few extra deployment drops is worth considering so you can pick where that hero will go and have the biggest impact.

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Cheers,

P

atm gil galad on armored horse with shield even though its not 200+ (not many good heros costing that) he is very tough to beat for his price range

The main thought crossing my mind as I read your response, polywags, is that you really need to have a defined idea of the role your big hero would play in the army, and it can be hard to do that.

I once coined the term "Sauron Syndrome", where a hero has so many different talents that it feels like a waste to just make him do one thing at a time, yet the talents can sometimes conflict with each other and leave your hero too thinly spread to be doing much of anything. For example, maybe you're caught between two minds as to whether your Treebeard should be calling heroic combats to really make use of his power, or saving his might for key heroic moves. This could lead to him mostly taking out a warrior or two at a time, threatening with the occasional hurl, but never really getting in the positions you want him to. At that point, I'm usually left wondering if I would have been better served taking a 60-point might caddy instead of shelling out on the beast.

Obviously, these are often in-game decisions that vary from game to game, but they are things that we need to be thinking about when designing the army too. If I know that I tend to be conservative with Treebeard's might for fear of needing late-game heroic moves, I can build a fail-safe into my army: either find a cheap source of might, or build the sort of list that doesn't really need to worry about heroics (stay away from cavalry and other movement-dependent models, put a couple of tricks in that allow me to dominate the move phase without being dependent on order of movement, etc)

What I'm starting to wonder is if it's better to stop thinking about the expensive hero as your army's centrepiece. Yes, you have to build counters to your hero's weaknesses and supports to his/her/its strengths into the army, but in many cases you benefit more from having an army that can function separately from the hero. If it's a big combat freak, the rest of your army is there to set up a platform for the hero to kill things quickly, but they do have to find a way to hold on if the hero gets neutralized. If your whole plan is built around "Aragorn, KILL!!!", then that army can be really easy to stop. On the other hand, if "Aragorn, KILL!!!" is more of a support strategy to the army's overall objective, you immediately become much harder to stop.


This is an idea I'd like to explore more in-depth: how to give the mega-heroes more supportive roles in an army, as opposed to having your strategy live and die by them.

Also, because of this change in direction, I've altered the original topic to include both good and evil heroes.

Man honestly the Witch King with cool stuff attached on fell beast.

I dont know how many times I've used him, and even when lackluster, I still have never regret taking him.

He can be a tough combat guy, he can disperse enemy cavalry, he can slow down or roll through horde armies, he can cast with the best in the game, he can shut down wizards, he can make it so your regular troops can take out monsters in a single turn if done right, he is more mobile than almost all 200 point heroes.....

Hes a jack of all trades and I never run into Sauron syndrome. I simply use him in many ways every game. Hes a nuisance.....

Beorn I often have regret using....other big heroes get bogged down or tied up with magic.....most big heroes like Bolg for example.....he because much less effective as soon as their mount is gone. Knight of the Pellanor, Boromir, Aragorn, etc.

Thats why Im very interested in the new Dain....hes going to be an animal. Mark my words.....that defense 6 two wound mount is so powerful.
Same with Azog. I believe he is still over costed on foot. Regardless of that if you have him on his mount he is also one of my favorites. You can make a couple big mistakes with him and survive. If hes on his defense 5 two wound mount he has 6/4/4 might will fate I believe......wow.

Ive used him three times and loved him. Although....I didnt play against magic which is in just about every top army in big tournaments.

So yeah Witch King easily. After that Azog is fun in games you know there is no magic. Ironic choices.

If I had to choose a good one to stay with topic Ill choose Treebeard. I rarely ever use him but here's the thing. I've played against him numerous times and hes one of the hardest models to even damage let alone kill....

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

I like Dain alot (tested a couple times) though the most sucessfull model i found so far, despite hes a bit harder to use is Thranduil, king of the woodland realm. I love the idea of the king with dual blades and sweep through ranks of orcs, and he does that perfectly, an A+ for this guy despite being a bit squishy...

I also like alot Treebeard,but ents rule generally should need a bump, even adding their own brutal power attack move... .stomp some 1 :P

Would be pretty easy to solve, nominate a model (man size or cav size), target model must make a courage test, if he passes hes fine and simply avoid the stomp, if he fails, remove the model from the field, fate points can be used as normal to avoid its effects on a 4+, but if he fails, the model is slain regardless how many wounds it has.

Dikey, dont you have to pick the mount or rider to attack? so you cant get 8 rending attacks just 8 normal strikes.

I have to second the witch king, the crown is often overlooked too.
Aragorn the king is pretty beast.. but havent used him in ages.

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My trade thread
http://www.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=25957&p=325932#p325932

just noticed that post and your correct you have to choose what is attacking the mount or rider.

gotta do something else with that rule man wont be too effective. In tournaments fury everywhere and high courage dwarves elves and special rules.....

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BLACKHAWK 2010 2013 2015 DYNASTY

Gorn in armor and elf cloak (with or without bow). Boromir Capt of the white tower is also acceptable. Great pieces!