I hate Faramir in the book, he is just too perfect. I don't get why so many people like him.
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| Battle at the black gate http://gbain.powweb.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=18153 |
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| Author: | Kezza [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Battle at the black gate |
one thing which annoys me about the movie is at the black gate, one minute Aragorn is riding along the front lines giving an inspirational speech, then the next minute he's on the ground running toward the orcs shouting "For Frodo!" The point is. what happened to his horse? Also the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy destroyed the character of Faramir. He was supposed to be a strong contrast to Boromir, whereas they made him identical. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle at the black gate |
Kezza wrote: Also the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy destroyed the character of Faramir. He was supposed to be a strong contrast to Boromir, whereas they made him identical.
Yeah, that really bugged me. I don't know why PJ had to turn Faramir from a strong resolute character doing his father's duty, to a whiny boy willing to do anything to win his father's affection. |
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| Author: | gambit025 [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:19 pm ] |
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Kezza: Quote: one thing which annoys me about the movie is at the black gate, one minute Aragorn is riding along the front lines giving an inspirational speech, then the next minute he's on the ground running toward the orcs shouting "For Frodo!" The point is. what happened to his horse?
Maybe he shooed it away... |
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| Author: | Kezza [ Sat Apr 17, 2010 5:27 pm ] |
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maybe he just borrowed it to make him look better for the speech, then gave it back to the guy behind him. |
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| Author: | ShadowMaster26 [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 5:56 am ] |
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I hate Faramir in the book, he is just too perfect. I don't get why so many people like him.
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| Author: | Kezza [ Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:35 am ] |
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I like him because he's one of the only non-fellowship characters who don't try to murder Frodo and steal the ring. he's kinda the sideline guy, the one who has little to do with the main story, but still owns when he's involved. |
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| Author: | wonkobaggins [ Mon Apr 26, 2010 11:05 am ] |
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I agree - Faramir did get the shaft in the movies. I thought Tolkien went out of his way (in the books) to show that Faramir, not Boromir, was the better representative of the blood of the men of the West, and consequently, that his taking of the stewardship would be part of Gondor's rebirth under Aragorn. But in the movies, not so much. But at least he didn't get offed like Haldir - big sad face there. |
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| Author: | Captain Ingold [ Fri Apr 30, 2010 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle at the black gate |
Kezza wrote: what happened to his horse? He ate it.
Yeah, that always confused me. What was the point of bringing a column of cavalry if they all disappear the instant the battle starts? |
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| Author: | GodlessM [ Fri May 14, 2010 2:25 am ] |
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Faramir was changed for a very simple reason. When writing the book, Tolkien never made a set plan and just wrote it as he went. He also wrote it as one book and it was when it first went to the publishers that it was split into three. As you can imagine, this meant the split wasn't going to be perfect. Because of this when adapting to film, the Sam and Frodo story became very bland as far as how it would look on screen, as theywould literally just totter on and this would not make for good film making when cut against the battle at Hem's Deep. As such, an obstacle needed to be created for Frodo, and having Faramir become that obstacle by being swayed by the ring was the perfect fit. Similarly with the horses, in times of war warriors that were trained to fight on foot would ride to the battleground on horseback so as to get their quicker and then fight on foot. Despite what some people believe, it is very difficult to fight on horseback when you aren't trained to. I think the problem in these situations is that people don't reaize that what works in literature rarely transfer directly onto film with the same effect. A book can be relaxing and can take in detail, but a film has to be energetic and the story has to keep moving and at just the right pace. As a film maker myself, I can honestly say that the changes made by PJ make perfect sense and without them, the films would have failed miserably; note I still say this as someone who saw the films after being a fan of the book my whole life. |
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| Author: | Warlord777 [ Fri May 14, 2010 2:29 am ] |
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What I hated about that scene is that Both Merry and Pippin are there when one is supposed to be deathly ill. |
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| Author: | Edraitheru [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:07 am ] |
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I just console myself with the fact tha PJs an idiot Imean he cut out Tom and the scourgeing of the Shire...so also I love Faramir in the books because hes a pure warrior and how he get Eowyn is pretty cool too or and Ithilien |
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| Author: | gambit025 [ Fri Jul 09, 2010 3:58 pm ] |
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Edraitheru wrote: I just console myself with the fact tha PJs an idiot Imean he cut out Tom and the scourgeing of the Shire.
I personally think Peter Jackson did a good job at making the films. Sure he missed out a few really good parts, but although they were good in the books they might not have flown so well in the movie. For example the Scouring of the Shire was a great part in the book, but in the film PJ probably left it out as he wanted the last battle to be a big one (the Battle of the Morannnon), not to metion the fact that the film would be alot longer if it was included. |
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| Author: | Eorltheyoung [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle at the black gate |
Kezza wrote: one thing which annoys me about the movie is at the black gate, one minute Aragorn is riding along the front lines giving an inspirational speech, then the next minute he's on the ground running toward the orcs shouting "For Frodo!" The point is. what happened to his horse?
Also the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy destroyed the character of Faramir. He was supposed to be a strong contrast to Boromir, whereas they made him identical. Yeah that bugged me along with other things. Like where did the body of the Mouth of Sauron go/ and where did his horse go? |
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| Author: | Eorltheyoung [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Battle at the black gate |
Kezza wrote: one thing which annoys me about the movie is at the black gate, one minute Aragorn is riding along the front lines giving an inspirational speech, then the next minute he's on the ground running toward the orcs shouting "For Frodo!" The point is. what happened to his horse?
Also the Peter Jackson LotR trilogy destroyed the character of Faramir. He was supposed to be a strong contrast to Boromir, whereas they made him identical. Yeah that bugged me along with other things. Like where did the body of the Mouth of Sauron go/ and where did his horse go? |
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| Author: | Jamros [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:51 am ] |
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Not only was Faramir as a character butchered, but Boromir was slaughtered as well, and their wise yet corrupted father was made out to be an utter maniac. Its kind of sad. I can understand what they did with the character of Faramir, and, okay, maybe Boromir as such an obvious antagonist was a method of foreshadowing needed in FotR to add tension and suspense, and sure, they did not have time to delve into Denethor's true personality and therefore simplified it extensively. But when you see that Faramir go from a true man of quality to a desperate tool, Boromir go from a man of pride and honor to one of utter continual weakness, and Denethor go from a powerfully brilliant steward to an aged fool, well, it is pretty disappointing. Oddly enough, however, both the movie versions of those three as well as the book versions are still three of my favorite characters in Lord of the Rings, and suffice it to say, the films bring something to the men of Gondor that Tolkien did not (or in the case of Boromir, not delve much into); a proverbial theme of redemption. I understand what PJ did and I respect him for it. He cut out a lot of classic moments all of which were understandable. He also simplified a lot of personalities for thematic purposes, and expanded others for the same reason (I can honestly say that I preferred the entire character exploration of Gollum much more on screen than on paper). Some things, however, I wish he would have avoided; elves at Helm's Deep, the death of Haldir, the Dead conquering Pelennor (the last being the most disconcerting). In any case, they are my favorite movies, and my favorite books. |
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| Author: | osric [ Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:45 pm ] |
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Edraitheru wrote: I just console myself with the fact tha PJs an idiot Imean he cut out Tom and the scourgeing of the Shire...
you know how much longer that wouldve made the movies. they are already 3 hours each. adding the barrow downs in the first one, another 30-45 min. and the scourging of the shire another hour. plus thats a ton of more money for production. it wouldve been nice but there are the reasons. |
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