IMO, goblins look too uniform to be a horde army.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Orcs were the mainstay of evil forces in Tolkien's works. PJ gave us mass armies of Uruk Hai, but it was partly to simplify the complexity of the world as well as provide a higher level of tension. The hordes that assaulted Helms Deep were thousands of Orcs and wild Men, as well as the Fighting Uruk Hai. Mordor also had it's Uruk Hai, but it had an almost unlimited supply of orc as well.

In the game I really enjoy playing a strong compliment of Orcs and enforcing them with Uruk Hai Scouts (my favorite combo for Isengard) or Morannon Orc and Mordor Uruk Hai.

As for the Goblins...they are just a little too "same" for my liking as an army (same reason I may never get into Gondor) but are a fantastic horde force, cheap to field in both real money and points, quick to paint and the ultimate example of disposable evil troops. Having to start from scratch though, I just don't think I can do a decent force of them without loosing what little bit of sanity I pretend to still have.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Can anyone provide a reference for this? I've looked in my copies of the books and all I can find is references to uruks in Mordor, not Uruk-hai.

I've always read it as Uruk is a name for large orks, while Uruk-hai, which I have only seen referenced as Sauruman's troops, were the "goblin-men" that Sauruman bred. Since I signed up for forums though I have seen several people mention that Mordor had Uruk-hai and I don't know where they are getting that idea.

The Uruk Hai were the greater Orcs in Middle Earth. They were first used by Sauron, and then Saruman made his own version which looked different and may have even been an improvement (with regard to tolerance of light specifically and looking more like Men). I believe there are references in FotR when in Moria of the Orcs (goblins) there including larger Orcs of Mordor. Shagrat and others are described in later books as being these larger Orcs (though I think Gorbag was as well in the books).

Last spring I started yet another re-read of the books but set it down just after reaching TTT. I got back into it about a month ago and am just past Helms Deep so when I get into RotK I’ll try to remember to keep an eye out for some of the references for the Mordor Uruk Hai.

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Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com

Both armies are awesome I believe... It's another thing we put them in an order considering our like...

They were mentioned in the FoTR during the Fellowship's flight through Moria, between the Chamber of Mazarbul and the run to the Bridge IIRC.

That's what I said, they should all look different, like hordes should be.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I agree, goblins is so much alike...

That passage describes "large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor", not Uruk-Hai just regular orcs of a large size. There are similar comments, I think, when Sam and Frodo are getting through Cirith Ungol, always just "Uruk" never "Uruk-Hai"

Yes, and Uruks and Uruk-hai are the same thing.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

No an Uruk-hai was imporvement of normal Uruk

Based on what?

Like I said in my first post on this subject,



And so far no one has been able to provide me with any evidence to the contrary, so I don't know where GW got the idea that Mordor should have Uruk-Hai

Other people have much greater knowledge of the source material than i do, especially the supplementary stuff, so I could well not have access to the information, but nowhere in the core 4 books can I find a reference to Mordor Uruk-Hai or any indication that "-Hai" does not refer to Sauruman's creations.

Sorry this is in incredibly late response but Mordor did have Uruk-hai and Uruk is just the shortened form of Uruk-hai, you've even admitted that you don't have knowledge of the source material - its not GW that decided Mordor had Uruk-hjai, they got it from the movies who got it from the fiilms. And 'Hia is not a suffix to Saruman's creatuions because the word Olog-hai refers to a breed of Troll which is to normal trolls what uruks are to orcs, annd Olog-hai are found ONLY in the armies or Mordor and Dol Guldor.

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

No, I said I don't have extensive knowledge of the supplemental material such as unfinished tales and the histories of middle earth, I am quite well versed in the core sources.

I have, however, finally found something on my own that suggests it. In Cirith Ungol, one of the Orcs makes a reference to rebel Uruk-Hai. Not terribly likely that any of Sauruman's troops are lurking about on the borders of Mordor so I will take that as sufficient evidence of the existence of Mordor Uruk-Hai.

Its still a pretty obscure reference so I don't know why so many people were so sure, and I really don't know why NO ONE, on 3 different forums, in several different threads, over the course of about 2 years, EVER provided ANY evidence to support the statement.

But I am content now and shall be silent on the subject.

I picked Uruk-Hai, only because I will always despise the Orc and the Goblin for being my opposite number. Every game I play, I find myself most happy with fighting either of those two. Orcs and Goblins, in almost all settings, rely so heavily on their numbers overwhelming the enemy while my armies are almost always outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1 but slice through the enemy like a sword through cloth. Uruks (Uruk, Uruk-Hai, same difference) I have respect for on the field of battle. They are strong, they are well-armoured and they fight better than Orcs, Goblins or even Men. Therefore the Uruk-Hai is this poll's Deadliest Warrior.

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Firstly, Hi WayUndertheMountain and welcome for your opinion, you missed this the first time round, IMO the only good uruk-hai are Mordor Uruk-hai



I am glad you are content but there are more than just one obscure reference. If yo want to know Sauron employed Mordor Uruk-hai before Saruman was even evil



Uruk-hai is Black Speech;

AndI just want to bring a little attention =towards this battle, it suggest that Mordor Uruk-hai were not unbeatable, but shows they took part in a battle, in an army composed entirely or almost entirely of Mordor Uruk-hai (they also appeared in Cirith Ungol and at the Battle of Pelennor Fields):

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"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Orcs since I prefer the way they have a more varied wargear, the skin colour is different too and these things make them funny to paint imo.

Uruk-hai of course a huge army of uruks looks awsome

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Want to see all my work and my collection of mini's? Check here http://bloodiest-frodo.blogspot.com/

Uruks are huge, violent and brilliant fighters, unquestionably loyal.

Orcs and Goblins are weak, cowardly, small, treacherous little things.

Guess what i chose...

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"... Telchar wrought it in the deeps of time."
-On Andùril, The Lord of the Rings

Orcs and Goblins are the exact same thing in the book, the goblins are just the orcs that "went native" so to speak in the Misty Mountains while the orcs remained directly under the command of Sauron through the Nazgul. I like how GW represented the fact that they were more used to the caves of Moria by making them different in the ways they did. Uruk-hai (which Uruk is black speech for orc, Uruk-hai refers only to the Uruk-hai. However, most people just call orcs orcs and Uruk-hai uruks) were created by Sauron in the late 3rd Age to make a better orc, which based on the battle that Gothmog mentioned earlier, he did just that. Saruman then later got the "recipe" to make the Uruk-hai and added his own variation to it, making the "Fighting Uruk-hai", basically just better Uruk-hai. This is where the confusion over the different kinds of orcs comes from. Because they are the better orcs, I vote for the Uruk-hai. Shagrat is probably one of my favorite bad guys in the book, a loyal Uruk was something not seen in Mordor til he popped up. Obviously Ugluk and co were pretty loyal, but they were from Isengard.

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