here is my profile. Very different than those above. They seem more single model variants, and more based on a actual named literature figure.

I see my variant as more of a folk-lore werewolf. Being said they can either be humanoid-into-wolf or wolf-into-humanoid, but coming from the baseline of a humanoid for reference to a "race". Also I wanted them to have a sense of intellegence outside of raw mindless brute. I wanted them to be fielded in a manageable number.

Alpha Male/Female:
70pts Alpha (humanoid) (calvary base)
8" f/s:5/5 s:6 d:5 a:3 w:2 c:3 m:2/w:2/f:1

Terror
Packlord: Only werewolves can benefit from the Alpha's Stand Fast! rule or benefit from its heroic actions.
Cornered Beast: The Alpha can never be trapped. ((A cornered beast is a most deadly of foes.))


Werewolves:
22pts Werewolf (humanoid) (infantry base)
8" f/s:4/5 s:4 d:4 a:2 w:2 c:3

Bring it Down! : If 2 or more werewolves are attacking the same model they add a single +1 to the highest roll of their combined Fight Resolution roll, the value cannot be raised above a 6, to see which side wins the fight. This roll can not be stacked with Might. ((this represents the pack working together to bring down their victim, only applies to the werewolf and not the Alpha. So if the Alpha and a werewolf are attacking a single model together this ability does not factor into the combat, but if the Alpha and 2 werewolfs are attacking the same model then Bring it Down! applies, you must roll separately from the Alpha. Allows for flexibility, flavor for you and target of priority for your friend across the table))

Cornered Beast: A werewolf can never be trapped.((A cornered beast is a most deadly of foes))

For the Pack! : If the Alpha is removed from play in any and all of the possible ways, the remaining werewolves must make an immediate Courage roll, if they are engaged they will immediately roll once unegaged. If they fail they are removed from the table as a "causality". If they Pass the Courage test they immediately become beastial. The werewolf strength value increases to s5, defence decreases to d3 and he/she automatically pass all courage test. ((They will fight to the death)).

Some of my reasonings behind the werewolf trooper statline; I wanted to have them be strong but reflecting the Age of the LoTR. I also wanted to have a something different than the same-old--same-old. I toyed with giving the werewolves equipment, making them monsters, and "Terror", but left it out and instead gave them something more, I hope, flavourful. The werewolf str/def in on line reflects that they are not mindless brutes, insectoids, or a single entity; but hopefully captures their dual humanoid/beastial nature and allows for more of them on the field than 1 or 2 hero-like were-creatures.

Comment and critiques welcomed. -Scar

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

But Tolkien's werewolves aren't skinchangers they are spirits, nor should werewolves that cost less than 30pts exist - they are better than that!

I do however, like your flavourful special rules.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

I do not know where you are getting the reference that werewolves are spirits. Unless you mean from the listing in the WoTR.

As for making them 50pts based off the point value in LoME, I can only say that some of the point values listed are outdated or "projected" values. Look at the cost of the half-troll in LoME, they are listed at 11pts. Though in the warband supplement their point cost is more than doubled that. Even the Harad warrior went up in point cost. So to stand by that reference is a bit shaky.

Also, I do completely understand your point. I to would like to see them be more "bad-arse" but to be able to field a good number on the field a few concessions have to be made.

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

I will try to post a 50pt variant and see if you like it

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

From the books, spirits that took the form of wolves.

Yes I'd like to see a 50ish pt version, and not just because of their LoME pts, but because that's how powerful I think they should be and I think GW were right on this one.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

A very nice set of rules ScarpeIron. I must say it is tricky to come up with rules that we all agree on.

I am currently sculpting some werewolves. The skin changer kind. I took inspiration from Lupin as a werewolf from Harry Potter. I find those kind much for fascinating.

If someone only wanted them as a spirit in wolf form then I guess fell wargs would suffice as models. Maybe give them glowing eyes.

_________________
My old WIP thread - http://www.one-ring.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=16246&start=0

Decent profile, but I think that no generic profile should have so many special rules. Anyway, the rules bear almost zero resemblance to Tolkien Werewolves, which look like big wolves but are spirits.

How about this:

Werewolf : 100 pts

F 6
S 6
D 5
A 3
W 3
C 5
M 10"
Special Rules:
Terror
Jaws of Thirst: If a werewolf kills a model, it may regenerate 1 wound lost earlier in the battle

Carcaroth, the Red Maw : 140 pts

F 6
S 7
D 7
A 3
W 4
C 6
M 10"
M/W/F
2/3/1
Special Rules:
Terror
Jaws of Thirst
Harbinger of Evil
Hunger Insatiable: Carcaroth must always move as fast as possible to the nearest enemy model, charging if possible. In addition, he can call a heroic combat for free once per turn, but has no stand fast and other models cannot benefit from his heroic actions.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Drop For The Pack! rule.

As I stated before it seems you are searching for a profile to fit into the First Age. Where everything and everyone seemed "heroic."

What I would like to see is a profile for the Third Age. Since there is no real proof, that I can recall, they survived past the 1st Age, and we are seeking a profile to field more than 1 or 2 of them; a more thinning of the original bloodline profile is sought. After all from the 1st Age to the ending of the 3rd Age at least 4.5k years came and went.

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

Werewolf:
50 points (Spirit) (calvary base)
f/s:5/5 s:6 d:5 a:3 w:2 c:4

Terror
Resistance to Magic

C&C. -scar

Edit: we ran/play tested this and found the balance was reducing the initial w3 to w2 and increasing the c3 to c4. Gave them the chance to stay in the fight when the rest fled the field.

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.

The trick with first age profiles is to tone down the heroic stuff; that way they still fit in the game; that's what I try to do.

Do they even exist after the first age? I had no idea. I was under the assumption they were long gone. If you wanted a cheaper werewolf, that last profile you have is good Scarpe; If you want to go cheaper maybe something spectre like that could be added to packs of wild wargs.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

Yes there is, in the Fellowship. First Gandalf tells Frodo that:


And then, there is the small matter of werewolves attacking the Fellowship later in the book. The characters think of them as wolves/wargs, but after Legolas had felled some, and didn't miss at all, when they looked the next morning all they could see was arrows as the bodies had vanished. Sounds to me like spirits in the form of wolves aka werewolves.

As to their statline, 50pts is how much they should be, and not because of GW but because of theme, they should have low defence (as Legolas easily felled some) but they should be powerful, much stronger than wargs or giant spiders, but should be weaker and more fragile than trolls.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

Sigh, the line between Wargs and werewolves so often blurred.
I still like my statline for Carcaroth, but I'm now convinced of the fluff justification for 50 pt werewolves. I think I should just go back to making profiles for overly angsty pseudo-oedipal complex types.

The thing is, making them too cheap changes the whole tone for the angmar list. At 50, legolas would still have trouble taking them out.

How about some variation?
ScarpeIron's ones can be, like, greater werewolves.

And then:

Lesser Werewolves: 12 pts

F 4
S 5
D 4
A 1
W 1
C 4
M 10"
Special Rules:
Terror
Hideous Baying: Once per move phase, a werewolf can turn its howl upon a particular enemy model. The opponent must take a courage test. If it fails, it must retreat it's full move distance directly away from the Lesser Werewolf, avoiding enemy control zones other models etc as usual. The model must take climb and jump tests to run away if it can.


So, a bit like fast spectres.

_________________
"Release the Kragle!"
They were waiting 45 minutes to make that pun.
Totally worth it.

A bit too much like Spectres, increase its cost by 3pts and give it an extra attack, so it is a little different, the ability to force an enemy back is still useful for a combat werewolf, it reduced the models in the fight, however, I think you need a range.

And yes that profile looks like Legolas could kill it, then again, he can bring down a 50pt one, I've seen Leggy kill a Cave Troll in one turn with bowfire, unlikely though.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.

My friends and I play around with the 22pt werewolf over the past few days and here is the old profile:

Werewolves:
22pts Werewolf (humanoid) (infantry base)
8" f/s:4/5 s:4 d:4 a:2 w:2 c:3

and the new one:
22pts Werewolf (spirit) (calvary base)
8" f/s:4/5 s5 d:4 a:2 w:2 c:3

We all pretty much agreed that the increase in strength was more fitting. Also for the special rules we had some good debates on a few points. We all liked For the Pack! but felt it was to strong an ability. Some wanted Terror and some did not, in the end it was left off. Everyone liked the defense:4, the change to spirit, placing on a calvary base, Cornered Beast and Bring it Down!.
I believe that with the overall changes the werewolf still comes in at 22pts.

The Alpha we changed the race to: (spirit).

C&C welcomed -Scar

_________________
Free speech carries with it some freedom to listen. -B.M.