What about resin? After all, Forgeworld creates much larger models than the Mumak (such as the War Mammoth, Emperor Dragon, Titans etc) and they're not in plastic.

I imagine that the stuff will be usable in a WotR expansion, rules should hopefully come out for SBG and I guess that there is a high chance of a new ruleset for the Hobbit, but probably not.

Regarding all of what I said about investors, you've taken what I said to the extremity of its meaning. I don't think the investors are people born with silver spoons and I understand that not everyone has a vote and all the other things that you mention. However, boil it down to its basics and you can see what my statements are getting at - I'm not a fanboy that wants lower prices, I'm someone with a strong and professional, educational understanding of fiscality and business. The shareholders that are able to change the way things work are ignoring the fact that their price rises for a luxury product in a niche market, with emerging cheaper competitots, during a recession is actually reducing profits. Still, let's not take this thread down this discussion because, whatever its original purpose, its current one isn't about that

Pardon me, but I was responding to your post.

You are correct it is a waste of time and effort.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

True I've never been really impressed by the detail of plastic models and yes the mold lines that run through, worst of all the head and the face, but you even have that problem with metals. For GW's premium cost you'd expect that they would have no lines running across their models. Though I have found they've improved their plastic models a bit, mostly on the Warhammer side. And if they can achieve good sculpts for Warhammer, there is no reason why they can't make Smaug look magnificent. In the end I rather have a Smaug that I know it won't melt and warp in the sun. There's going to be a lot of sagging and drooping if they make such a huge model in their finecast. They better go back to formula.


I don't have much experience with Forge World, but I have seen my friend's Ogre on some gigantic beast and it did look great. But my question now would be is Forge World Resin the same as finecast? There's been reports on the quality of finecast that has me worried. I haven't heard much about Forge World except that they're great but difficult to work with resin, unfortunately I don't know of any Lotr models they've made.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

True, I should have said GW proper won't be able to pull off a big model like that in finecast.

I wasn't just thinking of the engineering though, but also the price. A forgeworld kit around that size would probably run about a hundred pounds (roughly $160 US). I don't think a price like that is practical for the signature model, the one that EVERYONE is going to want, of the release. So while yes, a resin model is possible from a physical point of view, from a realistic, practical view I don't think it is an option.

I think it will be plastic as well, with a mumak sized base with mumak style decoration such as rocks/treasure/arkenstone/small footprints. I think it will just be a larger dragon than they currently make. A model of that size means detail is relative. It will have a lot of detail just not a lot of really small detail. Honestly the most recent tomb king and dark eldar releases have been pretty detailed for 28mm heroic scale.

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richmondwarmancers we play Lord of The Rings, Battlefleet Gothic, Infinity, some board games, and really whatever tickles our fancy..

It will be plastic- no reason to be made of anything else. Look at previous releases: every army book/Codex released in the past 9 months has had a large plastic kit of something completely new released with it.
The likelyhood is that any future new LotR releases will all be plastic apart from single characters (and maybe a few monsters) that will be finecast. Check out the latest Ogre release- the entire range is now plastic and finecast only. Majority of units and monsters are plastic with characters and a few of the elite units (models you only have a few of) in finecast.

I wouldn't imagine seeing anything new for LotR (bar finecast releases of older models) until the summer/autumn before the hobbit at the earliest. If you lookk back at when SBG was released it came out September/October while the Fellowship film was released in November/december.

That is very true. I am concerned they will just put out another poorly designed kit.

I have been building kits for 50 years. Vacuform goes together better. There is no excuse for this.

I you look at the photo of the GW kit you will see that the thick plastic parts are warped leavening from a 1/8 to 1/4 inch gap.I clamped it in a vice. I have used wood filler with out much success.I will make the kit work. I will not build any more or purchase one for myself.The other kit is worse.
Why don't I get it replaced? Why should I have a poor product replaced with another poor product? I hope they do a better job with the Hobbit but I have no reason to believe they will.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Oldman Willow, I agree with you. I have no desire to buy any of the new "cool" kits GW is releasing. Pricing is one reason - too d*****d expensive for what you get and the quality is, well...Let me just say that I am shocked when I see a model now that does not look like it was scuplted from a series of right angles. I REALLY hope that they allow the Perry brothers to sculpt any new models using traditional methods.

There are five parts that don't fit together well because they are warped. The glue points are pathetic .I used a mill.....* file and there is still a 1/16 inch gap.I used a years worth of wood filler!


There are more clamps on the model than parts. It looks like a broken Halloween candle from the Dollar Store.
* I used the proper name for the file I used and the program decided it was a swear word.

I had the kit clamped for half an hour. I am happy to report the glue point failed. I will have to do it again.
This is an exceptionally poor kit The other piece is worse. It belongs in the dollar store on discount.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

It's a different type - Forgworld requires cleaning beofre painting and a mask to be worn when filing/clipping it.

I doubt they'd do it in Finecast at that size, but (like you said) was simply saying it from a physical side. Also, Finecast had a LOT of teething problems, but (as a rule of thumb) is perfectly fine now (by GW standards).

Which kit is that, Oldman Willow?

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

Not from what I am reading. They are getting better but I still see lots and lots of complaints and returns. Wayland games has decided to start stocking finecast now, but they apparently have a disclaimer up basically saying let the buyer beware.

I bought my first finecast figs a few days ago. GW said the replacement for it should be here early next week.

What really concerns me is the reports of the stuff softening when left in direct sunlight and ruining detail, but I haven't heard anything more about that since the initial flap so maybe that was an isolated incident.

Well this Project X has just been announced for advance order on the GW site. A Warhammer naval warfare game as mentioned before on this thread. The Dreadfleet; looks interesting, expensive of course, but that's to be expected from GW. I would be interested but I already have lots to paint and I think I would have very few games with friends who would want to play that.

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My Lotr backlog: 305/952[][][][][][][][][][]32% completed
Painting Lineup: Mumakil x2, Rohan Heroes x8, Haradrim, SKoDA

It is called The Magewarth Throne and Bale wind Vortex


1/8 inch gap even after it was clamped. The griffins are what you would expect in a Happy meal. This is sub standard even for GW.


Why do you think Finecost does not?

Why? The other manufactures who use fine cast resin make large models and have none of the problems GW has. Look the Dollar Store Models don't have gaps!


I have not had a problem with Forgeword other than they don't make anything I want.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

Because they don't use a mould lubricant and it's a different kind of resin that doesn't create dust any more dangerous than the plastics.

Purely because Finecast seems to be instead of metals - I.E. characters and a few monsters, but nothing HUGE.

Not sure how that was relevant to the quote, lol.


Also, I'm a little underwhelmed by Dreadfleet - I haven't looked at the kit properly yet, but I was hoping for a little more than just a game and a book, particularly considering the massive build up. Also, everyone already knew that it was coming out, long before the "teaser" pics started floating about. Having said that, it seems there is a Chaos Dwarf squidmarine, which sounds quite cool (although I don;t see them using a squid shape, myself).

Wow ! I am glad you cleared that up so well. No more dangerous than plastic dust. Saw dust, coal dust, fiber glass and asbestos are also inert. By that reasoning you don't need a mask for them either. No mold release will make it easier to wash the dust off after sanding the flash and mold lines off the model. Or should we use the dust to fill the gaps?

It would have been more relevant to respond to this quote.
They have one LOTR product. Forgeword does not currently have a quality control issue that would cause any one to rate them below industry standard. I don't play 40K so I don't have any interest in most of their products.
Clearly I clicked and pasted the wrong line.Pain medication must have kicked in, Your are correct it would be hard to fine something relevant in the other quote.

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"the same as a duck you must be made of wood"

My point is that it is all too often said that you need to wear a mask during the preparation of Forgeworld resin and it's never mentioned regarding Citadel plastics and Finecast is just as safe as the Citadel plastic. No need to get sarcastic about it all - I simply answered the question. Regarding mold release and dust: again, it's the same as Citadel plastic. I.E. If any build sup, you can simply brush it off with your thumb. As for gaps, they're easier to fill than Citadel plastic, Forgeworld resin and the old metals because you can simply warm the resin slightly to reduce the warping, with the rest you can't. That's not to say that there is no problem, but it's only as bad as the rest of their stuff.



That makes a bit more sense now, lol. Forgeworld do often have a quality control problem to my knowledge, but are some of the best people for resolving it, usually shipping out a perfect copy of the same kit for free and pretty swiftly.

Just because GW doesn't specifically say you should wear a mask when sanding their minis doesn't mean the material is safe to breathe in. Common sense will tell you that breathing in plastic dust or tin flecks won't do you any good. That being said, Failcost is NOT the same as GW plastic; it has resin mixed in, particles of which are known to be hazardous to breathe in. How would adding plastic to resin make it safe to inhale?

As for your comment about filling gaps, a gap is not the same as warping. Granted, warping was a significant problem with metals but in my experience it's been easy to fix without needing heat. Plastics have never been badly warped (ie, bent) in my experiences.

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Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts

They have however said that you don't need to and at what point did I claim it was safe and/or wise to start sniffing any hobby related particles you could get your hands on? I also never said it was the same as the plastics, hence iterating "Citadel plastics" to make sure that I couldn't be misinterpreted (to which it seems I still failed).

Lastly, the gap-filling comment was in addition to warping - warped pieces can cause gaps to appear and the previous comment was discussing using the dust to fill the gaps in a sarcastic manner. Since you have responded in a tone that comes across as derogatory,w hilst also being assumptive and incorrect, please try reading what you;re commenting on properly before you respond.

Throughout the rest of the forum, I have found nothing but politeness, yet this thread seems to be getting more and more aggressive/trolly/flaming (although not actually at a point where I'd claim it was any) towards me - not because I think I'm right, but actually because I have answered questions, described the products mentioned in a fair manner and because I have been misread.

Perhaps it was me misreading it, but I got the impression that you were saying that no protective gear would be required while sanding. You also mentioned that Finecast was "just as safe as the Citadel plastic." While I have no doubt that you aren't being purposefully misleading in this, and I'm sure you heard it either from a GW employee or saw it on their website I'm not sure I believe it. A substance that is potentially harmful if ingested + a more toxic substance doesn't = the same thing. In other words, while there may be no ill effects of sanding/ filing without glasses and a face mask, why take the risk? I've gotten superglue flecks (dried) in my eye while sanding and I'll tell ya, it hurts like hell. I've worn a cheap pair of safety glasses ever since.



As I pointed out, I had only encountered warping in metal minis. This is usually at sword or bows. Plastics have always been nice and straight for me, the worst I've ever got was a little more flash than usual. What kinds of gaps do FC models have? I honestly can't see a reason why filling a gap between two halves (like on the plastic horses or wargs, for example) wouldn't require greenstuff.



You seem to be bent on defending Citadel Finecast. A lot of people here (and elsewhere) don't like it, and I don't think that's unjustified. It's a cheaper material that they're charging more for. They rolled it out before it was ready and consequently saw a lot of flaws in the product. They've stopped producing metal models in favour of it, and god alone knows how long it will be before the entire range is in Finecast. For 2 months now I've wanted Rohan Royal Guard both mounted and on foot. My country's GW store says it will be several weeks for them. No local stores have them in stock and can't order them. Also, because I have already registered as a Canadian customer, I can't order them off other countries' GW sites. The same holds true for Khazad and Iron Guards. And Serpent Riders and Guards. On top of the Finecast issue, GW issued a(n apparently unrelated) price hike just as the announcement was made. Whether it tied in or not, that was a lot of stuff all at once to [word deleted] off GW's clientele.

I applaud you for defending something you obviously feel strongly about. However, you need to realize that yours may not be the popular stance right now and that people will disagree with you on it. Many seem to be hoping that FC will be an utter failure and that when it falls, metal minis will make a comeback. A lot of animosity people are feeling towards GW right now may be directed at you because you're telling them things they don't want to hear. I may be guilty of some of that misdirected anger. I apologize if you feel that way. Sometimes in the heat of debate, feathers are ruffled and things best left unsaid are brought out.

_________________
Gondor: 2339pts
Rohan: 1318pts
Dwarves: 2482pts
Elves: 1091pts
Mordor: 2305pts
Isengard: 1762pts
Moria: 1463pts
Evil Men: 381pts